Legislature(2009 - 2010)HOUSE FINANCE 519

02/08/2010 01:30 PM House FINANCE

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Heard & Held
Heard & Held
HOUSE BILL NO. 36                                                                                                             
     "An Act  prohibiting initiatives that  are substantially                                                                   
     similar  to those  that failed within  the previous  two                                                                   
     years; relating to financial  disclosure reporting dates                                                                   
     for persons,  groups, and nongroup entities  that expend                                                                   
     money  in support  of or in  opposition to  initiatives,                                                                   
     initiative information contained  in election pamphlets,                                                                   
     initiative  petitions, initiative petition  circulators,                                                                   
     and  public hearings  for initiatives;  and requiring  a                                                                   
     standing  committee  of   the  legislature  to  consider                                                                   
     initiatives  scheduled for  appearance  on the  election                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE KYLE JOHANSEN,  the bill sponsor, reviewed the                                                                   
sponsor statement (copy on file).                                                                                               
                     SPONSOR STATEMENT                                                                                          
     Alaska's lawmaking process is highly public and                                                                            
     strives to be transparent. Shown by the passage of an                                                                      
     omnibus ethics bill in 2006, Alaskan voters want to                                                                        
     know who is contributing to candidate campaigns.                                                                           
     Initiative-created law has the same authority and                                                                          
     effect as law created by elected officials; therefore                                                                      
     voters should be allowed to know who is making law                                                                         
     through the initiative  process. House Bill 36, also                                                                       
     known as the Open and Transparent Initiative Act                                                                           
     (OTIA), seeks to identify people and/or groups who                                                                         
     financially contribute to initiative campaigns and                                                                         
     requires all initiative groups to register with the                                                                        
     Alaska Public Office's Commission. These guidelines                                                                        
     are similar to those imposed upon elected officials.                                                                       
     In addition, OTIA mandates that initiative sponsors h                                                                      
     old public hearings in 30 house districts, limits                                                                          
     signature-gathers to work one petition at a time,                                                                          
     restricts the use of per-signature commission, and                                                                         
     requires all of the language of a proposed ballot                                                                          
     measure be published in the petition booklets so                                                                           
     potential signers have the opportunity to read all of                                                                      
     the language rather than a short summary.                                                                                  
     Initiative committees in Alaska are not held to a high                                                                     
     enough disclosure standard. There are loopholes in the                                                                     
     current disclosure process that allow groups to hide                                                                       
     contributors. These are signature-gathers without                                                                          
     accountability. There is a lack of public hearings and                                                                     
     input. There is financial information that is not                                                                          
     disclosed until after the election. These shortcomings                                                                     
     are not acceptable, and the Open and Transparent                                                                           
     Initiative Act seeks to close these loopholes, repair                                                                      
     the initiative process, and restore the faith of                                                                           
     Alaskans in our election process.                                                                                          
Representative  Johansen  noted  that  this  bill  was  first                                                                   
brought before the  committee at the end of  last session. He                                                                   
reported a major issue in the  legislation was the disclosure                                                                   
of money spent during the initiative  process. He noted there                                                                   
is  a  gap in  the  disclosure  process  between the  time  a                                                                   
question is submitted to the Lt.  Governor and the Department                                                                   
of Law decides if it is a valid  question that can be legally                                                                   
put  on  the  ballot.  From that  time  until  the  boxes  of                                                                   
signatures are handed to the Lt.  Governor to be reviewed and                                                                   
approved, there  is a gap in  the disclosure law.  The source                                                                   
of  the  money is  not  known  during  that period  of  time.                                                                   
Representative  Johansen indicated  that HB  36 would  ensure                                                                   
the source is disclosed to the  public. He continued that the                                                                   
second part  of the  bill would  include two required  public                                                                   
hearings  in  each  judicial district  overseen  by  the  Lt.                                                                   
Governor. After the pro and con  statements of the initiative                                                                   
were read, there would be public testimony and questions.                                                                       
1:42:46 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Stoltze requested an  outline of the major points of                                                                   
the bill.  He added that  the bill was  heard last  year, but                                                                   
Representative  Johansen insisted on  inserting the  five day                                                                   
notice for the public.                                                                                                          
Representative Johansen  believed the public should  know who                                                                   
is influencing the statutes and  initiatives being passed. He                                                                   
recognized  that the public  is sensitive  to changes  in the                                                                   
initiative  process, but  he  believed that  it  needs to  be                                                                   
better. Representative  Johansen referred to CS  SSHB 36(JUD)                                                                   
26-LS0197\S  and  proceeded to  define  the  sections of  the                                                                   
     Section 1. Requires an individual, person, non-    group                                                                 
entity, or group that contributes a total of $500 or  more                                                                      
to a group organized for the principal  purpose            of                                                                   
influencing a bill proposed for  inclusion    on  the  ballot                                                                   
as an initiative under AS 15.45.020, to report            the                                                                   
individual's, person's, non=group entity's,  or       group's                                                                   
contribution or contributions  on a form prescribed  by   the                                                                   
Alaska Public Offices Commission    (APOC) not later  than 30                                                                   
days after the contribution  is made.                                                                                           
1:45:05 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Johansen referred  to the Sectional  Analysis                                                                   
for House  Bill 36 and reviewed  section by section  (copy on                                                                   
     Section 2.Provides that each person other than an                                                                        
     individual shall register with APOC before making an                                                                       
     expenditure in support of or in opposition to a                                                                            
     proposed initiatives bill filed with the lieutenant                                                                        
     governor under AS 15.45.020                                                                                                
     Section 3.Expands the meaning of "proposition"     under                                                                 
AS   15.13.065©   to   include    an   ini9tiative   proposal                                                                   
     application filed with the lieutenant governor under                                                                       
     AS 15.45.020                                                                                                               
     Section 4.Conforms subsection AS 15.13.110(e) to  the                                                                    
enhanced initiative reporting requirements found  in      the                                                                   
bill's sec.5.                                                                                                                   
     Section 5.Establishes new reporting requirements  for                                                                    
initiative committees, persons, groups or non-     group                                                                        
entities making certain contributions  or     expenditures in                                                                   
support of or in opposition to an  initiative        proposal                                                                   
application filed with the     lieutenant   governor    under                                                                   
AS.15.45.020 or an  initiative  that  has been  approved  for                                                                   
placement on the    ballot.                                                                                                     
     Section 6.Expands the definition of      "contribution"                                                                  
applicable to state election campaigns   to  include  Certain                                                                   
purchases, payments, promises,  or  obligations to pay, loans                                                                   
or loan guarantees, deposits   or gifts  of  money, good,  or                                                                   
services for which a     charge  is ordinarily  made that  is                                                                   
made for the purpose     of   supporting   or  proposing   an                                                                   
initiatives proposal     application     filed    with    the                                                                   
lieutenant governor under      AS 15.45.020.                                                                                    
     Section 7.Expands the definition of "expenditure"                                                                        
     applicable to state election campaigns to include                                                                          
     certain purchases or transfers of money or anything of                                                                     
     value, or promises or agreements to purchase or                                                                            
     transfer money or anything value, incurred or made for                                                                     
     the purpose of supporting or opposing an initiative                                                                        
     proposal application filed with the lieutenant                                                                             
     governor under AS.15.45.020.                                                                                               
     Section 8.Prohibits     an     initiative    that     is                                                                 
     substantially similar to an initiative that has                                                                            
     appeared on the ballot in the previous two years that                                                                      
     was not adopted by the electorate.                                                                                         
     Section 9.Requires that each initiative petition                                                                         
     contains a copy of the proposed initiative bill.                                                                           
     Section 10.    Prohibits paying initiative petition                                                                      
     circulators on a per signature basis.                                                                                      
     Section 11:    Requires that the Lieutenant  Governor                                                                      
     (1) hold at least 2 hearings in each judicial                                                                              
     district of the State and (2) provide reasonable                                                                           
     notice of each public hearing. Provides a time frame                                                                       
     for the Lieutenant Governor to hold the public                                                                             
     hearings, which is after a measure is to appear on the                                                                     
     ballot and at least 30 days prior to the election.                                                                         
1:50:04 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Johansen continued with Section 12.                                                                              
     Section 12.    Requires an election pamphlet to be                                                                       
     prepared and mailed to each household for any special                                                                      
     election at which a ballot proposition is scheduled to                                                                     
     appear on the ballot.                                                                                                      
     Section 13.    Provides that an election pamphlet for                                                                    
     a special election at which a ballot measure is                                                                            
     scheduled to appear on the ballot shall contain (1)                                                                        
     the full text of the proposition, (2) the ballot title                                                                     
     and summary of the proposition, (3) a statement of the                                                                     
     costs to the state of implementing the law proposed in                                                                     
     an initiative, (4) a neutral summary of the                                                                                
     proposition, (5) statements submitted that advocate                                                                        
     voter approval or rejection of the proposition not to                                                                      
     exceed 500 words, and (6) any additional information                                                                       
     on voting procedures that the lieutenant governor                                                                          
     considers necessary.                                                                                                       
     Section 14.    Requires that a standing committee of                                                                     
     the legislature review initiatives that the lieutenant                                                                     
     governor has approved for placement on the ballot.                                                                         
Representative  Johansen noticed  with  initiatives that  had                                                                   
passed when  it comes  to the  subcommittee in the  operating                                                                   
budget  there are  often impacts  not  anticipated. He  added                                                                   
that  this  prompts departments  to  ask  for more  money  or                                                                   
employees to carry out the initiative.  Section 14 requires a                                                                   
standing  committee  of  the  legislature  conduct  a  review                                                                   
within 30 days of the session  convening to have a discussion                                                                   
and put on the record what this new initiative will cost.                                                                       
Co-Chair  Stoltze asked  if that  was  only an  informational                                                                   
hearing.    Representative   Johansen    agreed,   but    the                                                                   
conversations  on  the impact  on  the budget  are  extremely                                                                   
important. Co-Chair Stoltze wondered  if the attorney general                                                                   
and Supreme Court would retain  their rights to make changes.                                                                   
Representative  Johansen replied  that this legislation  does                                                                   
not affect those entities at all.                                                                                               
     Section 15.    Provides that the provisions of the Act                                                                   
     apply to an initiative proposed by filing an                                                                               
     application with the lieutenant governor under AS                                                                          
     15.45.020 on or after the effective date of the Act.                                                                       
1:54:07 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Austerman asked  if most of this applies after                                                                   
the Lt.  Governor has certified  that the initiative  process                                                                   
is valid. Representative Johansen  agreed. He added that once                                                                   
the Lt. Governor runs the question  through the Department of                                                                   
Law  and it  is considered  legal  for the  ballot, then  the                                                                   
reporting  and  disclosure  and   following  statutes  become                                                                   
relevant. Representative Austerman  asked on average how many                                                                   
initiatives are certified per year                                                                                              
SONIA  CHRISTENSEN, STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN,  replied                                                                   
that was  a good question. She  believed there were  three or                                                                   
four certified for the next election.                                                                                           
Representative Johansen responded  that the information would                                                                   
be  provided to  the  committee.  He added  that  there is  a                                                                   
strong upward  turn in  the initiative  process as  an option                                                                   
for statute change.                                                                                                             
Representative  Austerman  noted  there  were  four  judicial                                                                   
districts  which  would  require   eight  meetings  for  each                                                                   
initiative.  He  elaborated  that  a  zero  fiscal  note  was                                                                   
attached  and wondered  how the department  would absorb  the                                                                   
cost for all the required travel.                                                                                               
1:56:34 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Johansen indicated  that the  state has  been                                                                   
split  in  many   different  ways  to  accomplish   this.  He                                                                   
mentioned  the Lt. Governor  has proposed  an Initiative  Day                                                                   
where  two or  three initiatives  could be  discussed at  one                                                                   
time. He stated that the Lt. Governor's  office indicated the                                                                   
travel requirements could fit within their budget.                                                                              
Vice-Chair  Thomas  voiced his  concern  about  contributions                                                                   
from out  of state and  asked if there  was any limit  on how                                                                   
much out of state money could be contributed.                                                                                   
Representative Johansen replied  that he was not aware of the                                                                   
any set  amount, but no portion  of this bill refers  to that                                                                   
issue. Vice-Chair  Thomas reiterated his concern  that people                                                                   
outside  of Alaska  could  contribute  to local  affairs.  He                                                                   
believed there  should be  a limit to  how much money  can be                                                                   
contributed  from outside  of the  state in  dealing with  an                                                                   
initiative.  He thought  an amendment  to cap  the amount  of                                                                   
outside  contributions  was needed.  Representative  Johansen                                                                   
agreed that was  a valid point and would research  the answer                                                                   
for the committee.                                                                                                              
2:00:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Doogan asked for  more information  regarding                                                                   
Section 12.  He inquired if  there were initiative  petitions                                                                   
for special elections and wondered  under what provision that                                                                   
would happen.                                                                                                                   
Ms.  Christensen  answered  that  initiatives  can  be  on  a                                                                   
special  election  ballot  if  the timing  was  correct.  She                                                                   
explained  that ballot  measure  groups  cannot choose  which                                                                   
ballot  the initiative  will be  on. She  indicated that  the                                                                   
language  in Sections  12 and  13  was not  requested by  the                                                                   
sponsor, but a legal change from the drafters.                                                                                  
Co-Chair  Stoltze suggested  looking into  some past  special                                                                   
2:02:59 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Gara  referred to Section  8. He noted  that a                                                                   
bill under the Alaska Constitution  is subject to the single-                                                                   
subject  rule  which  has  been defined  by  the  courts.  He                                                                   
wondered if  initiatives were  subject to the  single subject                                                                   
Ms.  Christensen responded  that initiatives  are subject  to                                                                   
the  single subject  rule, but  added  that there  are a  few                                                                   
subjects  that  ballot  measures   cannot  address,  such  as                                                                   
constitutional issues and appropriations.                                                                                       
2:03:58 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Hawker informed the committee that the statutory                                                                     
reference was AS 15.45.040 which states:                                                                                      
(1)  the bill shall be confined to one subject;                                                                             
(2)  the  subject of  the  bill  shall  be expressed  in  the                                                                 
(3)  the  enacting  clause  of  the bill  shall  be:  "Be  it                                                                 
     enacted by the People of the State of Alaska;"                                                                             
(4)  the bill  may  not  include  subjects restricted  by  AS                                                                 
Representative Gara wanted to  make sure the scope of what an                                                                   
initiative  can  cover  is  not changed.  He  noted  that  an                                                                   
initiative is subject  to the single subject  rule and wanted                                                                   
to make sure  if that one subject rule further  restricts the                                                                   
Representative Johansen  responded that the intent  is not to                                                                   
tighten  up  or  put more  restrictions  on  initiatives.  He                                                                   
acknowledged that there might be a better way to write it.                                                                      
Representative Gara  voiced his concern over  anything making                                                                   
it harder for someone to get an  initiative on the ballot. He                                                                   
referred  to  Section  10  and   questioned  the  payment  of                                                                   
petition  signature collectors.  He  stated  that at  present                                                                   
collectors receive  one dollar  per signature. He  questioned                                                                   
what would  not be allowed now  under Section 10 and  what is                                                                   
being proposed.                                                                                                                 
Representative  Johansen  reported that  the  one dollar  per                                                                   
signature rule would be appealed  under this bill and another                                                                   
method  would  be  found  to   pay  signature  gatherers.  He                                                                   
emphasized  that the  goal was  to weed  out individuals  who                                                                   
might practice  fraudulent methods to receive  the one dollar                                                                   
per signature. He believed the  safest method would be to pay                                                                   
an  hourly wage  with  a possible  bonus  for  those good  at                                                                   
gathering signatures.                                                                                                           
Representative  Gara voiced his  concern that someone  trying                                                                   
to get  initiatives on the ballot  may have a  more difficult                                                                   
time  hiring   a  signature  gatherer  if  the   process  for                                                                   
compensation  was  made  more  difficult.  He  asserted  that                                                                   
hourly   employees  would   require   more  supervision   and                                                                   
monitoring which  could make it  harder to get  an initiative                                                                   
on the ballot.                                                                                                                  
2:08:48 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Doogan  asked if  the  Lt. Governor  was  not                                                                   
certifying  signatures   then  he   wondered  how   they  are                                                                   
verified.   Representative   Johansen  explained   that   the                                                                   
motivation came  from evidence in other states  that revealed                                                                   
problems  with paying  people per signature.  He remarked  on                                                                   
his  experience   with  signature   gathers  who   were  more                                                                   
interested in getting  the signatures from as  many people as                                                                   
possible  and  not  interested   in  answering  questions  or                                                                   
providing information.                                                                                                          
2:11:15 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Stoltze  interjected that Ms. Fenumiai  could answer                                                                   
this question when she testifies.                                                                                               
Representative  Gara  alleged   in  Section  11  that  a  Lt.                                                                   
Governor who does  not like an initiative may try  to make it                                                                   
more difficult  to get on the  ballot by not having  a public                                                                   
hearing within  the 30 day time  period. If the  Lt. Governor                                                                   
failed to  have the  public hearing before  30 days,  then it                                                                   
could be argued that the initiative was not valid.                                                                              
Representative  Johansen  agreed  that  could be  a  concern,                                                                   
although it  was not the intent  of the sponsor.  He declared                                                                   
it hard to believe  that any Lt. Governor would  try to block                                                                   
an initiative process.                                                                                                          
Representative Gara countered  that it would not shock him if                                                                   
this  happened,  but  went  on  to  question  other  possible                                                                   
delays, such as weather. Representative  Johansen declared if                                                                   
anyone could provide better language  for additional comfort,                                                                   
he was open to it. He emphasized  that there was no intent in                                                                   
the bill  for anyone to  stop the initiative  process through                                                                   
some backdoor scheduling problem.                                                                                               
2:14:52 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Fairclough suggested  that that legislation go                                                                   
straight to  ballot if  the Lt. Governor  did not  handle the                                                                   
initiative requirements in a timely manner.                                                                                     
Co-Chair Stoltze  informed the  committee that he  intends to                                                                   
take testimony from the Office  of the Lt. Governor, Division                                                                   
of Elections,  Alaska  Public Offices  Commission (APOC)  and                                                                   
finally public  testimony to answers  some of the  issues and                                                                   
Representative  Gara inquired  on  the limitations  of  money                                                                   
that can be donated.                                                                                                            
Ms. Christensen  answered  that the current  definition  of a                                                                   
ballot measure  does not include ballot  measure propositions                                                                   
therefore there  is a  loophole for the  money funded  to fly                                                                   
people  around the  state to  collect  signatures. She  noted                                                                   
that the information is not being  disclosed until it becomes                                                                   
an official ballot measure. There  are currently no limits or                                                                   
reports filed  for initiative  contribution disclosures.  She                                                                   
emphasized  that  HB  36  does   not  impose  any  limits  on                                                                   
contributions, only the disclosure.                                                                                             
Representative  Gara contended  that first  a report  must be                                                                   
made  to  APOC  after getting  the  signatures,  followed  by                                                                   
periodic reports.  He surmised then that before  one votes on                                                                   
an initiative the  information would be available  at APOC on                                                                   
who  donated to  the initiative,  but  while signatures  were                                                                   
being  gathered  there  was  no  reporting.  Ms.  Christensen                                                                   
Representative  Kelly  requested   the  research  on  capping                                                                   
outside contributions.  Co-Chair  Hawker reiterated  that all                                                                   
information would be disseminated to the committee members.                                                                     
2:18:38 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kelly asked if  the Administration supports HB
36 as written.                                                                                                                  
JOHN  CRAMER, CHIEF  OF STAFF,  OFFICE OF  THE LT.  GOVERNOR,                                                                   
replied that the Administration  supports the bill. He agreed                                                                   
some valid questions had been  raised. Once an initiative has                                                                   
been certified it will appear on the ballot.                                                                                    
Co-Chair Stoltze asked for the  definition of Administration.                                                                   
Mr. Cramer responded  he was referring to the  Lt. Governor's                                                                   
2:20:55 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Stoltze  asked what would  be the difference  in the                                                                   
process  between using  a  salaried employee  for  collecting                                                                   
signatures or someone who receives  one dollar per signature.                                                                   
GAIL  FENUMIAI, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION OF  ELECTIONS, OFFICE  OF                                                                   
THE  GOVERNOR, remarked  that  the process  for handling  the                                                                   
petition booklets would be the same.                                                                                            
Co-Chair Stoltze asked if a salaried  employee would have the                                                                   
same  requirements   to  be  the  only  one   that  collected                                                                   
signatures for a  petition book. He asked for  her to outline                                                                   
some of the safeguards.                                                                                                         
Ms.  Fenumiai answered  that when  the  application has  been                                                                   
approved  by  the  Lt. Governor's  office,  the  division  of                                                                   
elections prepares and releases  500 petition booklets. These                                                                   
booklets  are released  to the  initiative committee's  prime                                                                   
sponsors. Once the books are handed  over, the Lt. Governor's                                                                   
office has  no further  involvement in  the books until  they                                                                   
are  turned  over  to determine  if  the  correct  number  of                                                                   
signatures  exist for  the initiative  to  be put  it on  the                                                                   
ballot.  There  is no  policing  of  how the  signatures  are                                                                   
obtained. She  added that the  Division of Elections  has not                                                                   
come across  any incidences of  outright fraud  in collecting                                                                   
Co-Chair Stoltze  asked if the petition booklets  can be left                                                                   
somewhere  unattended.   Ms.  Fenumiai  responded   that  the                                                                   
petition booklet is assigned to  a signature gatherer and all                                                                   
signatures must be witnessed by that person.                                                                                    
2:23:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative   Fairclough  wanted  to   know  if   the  Lt.                                                                   
Governor's  office saw  any  challenges  in implementing  the                                                                   
bill and  if there  was anything in  the bill that  prohibits                                                                   
them  from putting  more than  one initiative  together in  a                                                                   
judicial district at one hearing.                                                                                               
Mr. Cramer acknowledged  the Lt. Governor's office  looked at                                                                   
that point  and did  not see  any problems  with having  more                                                                   
than one initiative during a scheduled hearing.                                                                                 
Representative Fairclough reiterated  if the division saw any                                                                   
challenges in  implementing this  bill. Mr. Cramer  responded                                                                   
they do not foresee any challenges  in implementing the bill,                                                                   
but  added  that  the  division  would  need  to  draft  some                                                                   
regulations to carry it out.                                                                                                    
2:25:37 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Austerman  asked if the Lt.  Governor's office                                                                   
would  return with  a  new supplemental  or  addition in  the                                                                   
budget.  Mr.  Cramer  answered  that the  division  does  not                                                                   
anticipate needing any supplemental.                                                                                            
Representative Gara noted that  it did not seem credible that                                                                   
eight  statewide hearings  on every  single initiative  could                                                                   
result in a zero fiscal note.                                                                                                   
Mr. Cramer replied that the Lt.  Governor lives in one of the                                                                   
four judicial  districts. He noted  there are usually  two to                                                                   
three, maybe as high as four initiatives  for 2010 ballot. If                                                                   
the  number of  initiatives were  higher,  then the  division                                                                   
might have to ask for additional  funds. He believed that for                                                                   
2010 the  existing staff and  budget could handle  the travel                                                                   
Representative Gara contended  that there would be costs with                                                                   
advertising  the meetings.  Mr.  Cramer  responded that  most                                                                   
state hearings  are advertised now  on the state  website. He                                                                   
added that  those pushing  the initiative  would probably  do                                                                   
their own advertising to get the word out.                                                                                      
2:28:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair Thomas  questioned if the salaried  employee would                                                                   
be eligible for  unemployment. Mr. Cramer responded  that the                                                                   
Department of Labor would have to answer that question.                                                                         
Representative  Doogan asked  if there  was any  part of  the                                                                   
bill the  Lt. Governor's office  did not support.  Mr. Cramer                                                                   
answered that the Lt. Governor's  office had no opposition to                                                                   
the bill.                                                                                                                       
Representative Gara wondered with  the new U.S. Supreme Court                                                                   
decision if  there would be  any problem having  corporations                                                                   
as  well  as individuals  identified  who  contribute  to  an                                                                   
Alaska election. Ms. Fenumiai  responded that the Division of                                                                   
Elections does  not track expenditures or  campaign donations                                                                   
only the Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC).                                                                               
Representative Gara  indicated that the state  constitutional                                                                   
issue of paying  one dollar per signature has  been upheld in                                                                   
five states  and struck down in  five states. He asked  if an                                                                   
Alaska  Constitutional   analysis  had  been   done  on  this                                                                   
subject. Mr. Cramer replied that he did not believe so.                                                                         
Co-Chair Stoltze interjected that  the issue has been debated                                                                   
in past  legislative sessions  so there  might be some  other                                                                   
legal memos on the subject.                                                                                                     
Representative  Gara responded  he would  get his legal  memo                                                                   
out to the committee.                                                                                                           
2:32:38 PM                                                                                                                    
PAULY  HILL,   EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR,   ALASKA  PUBLIC   OFFICE                                                                   
COMMISSION (via  teleconference), remarked that  by law there                                                                   
are no  contribution limitations  for ballot groups,  whether                                                                   
from  individuals,   corporations,  business   organizations,                                                                   
political parties,  groups or non  groups based in or  out of                                                                   
Vice-Chair  Thomas asked  if during the  last election  there                                                                   
were some  money limits  questions. Ms.  Hill responded  that                                                                   
she was not at liberty to discuss  a current case. Vice-Chair                                                                   
Thomas wanted  it on  the record that  someone tried  to give                                                                   
money three different ways.                                                                                                     
Representative  Kelly  questioned   if  a  limit  imposed  on                                                                   
someone in or out  of Alaska is constitutional or  if a limit                                                                   
similar  to campaign  financing limit  which limited  outside                                                                   
funds  to  a  smaller  value  than  funds  inside  Alaska  is                                                                   
JOHN PTACIN,  ASSISTANT ATTORNEY  GENERAL, DEPARTMENT  OF LAW                                                                   
(via  teleconference),  responded   that  the  law  currently                                                                   
contemplates  no  upward  limit   on  contributions  of  this                                                                   
nature. He added  that whether there can be  a difference for                                                                   
in or  out of  state groups or  individual contribution,  the                                                                   
office   would  need   to   study  the   issue   to  make   a                                                                   
determination.  Representative  Kelly relayed  that he  would                                                                   
like  to  receive  the information  and  also  the  sponsor's                                                                   
reaction if there is a negative response.                                                                                       
2:37:59 PM                                                                                                                    
Vice-Chair  Thomas   pointed  out   that  since   there  were                                                                   
contribution  limits  in  campaigns   for  the  governor  and                                                                   
legislators, he wondered  if limits would be  possible for in                                                                   
the initiative process.                                                                                                         
Representative Gara proposed that  if there was an initiative                                                                   
campaign and  someone or group  does not want anyone  to know                                                                   
they are big donors, they might  create a fictitious group to                                                                   
sponsor it. He wondered when an  ad is place on television is                                                                   
there a  disclosure requirement  on naming the  sponsors. Ms.                                                                   
Hill  responded that  any  time a  communication  is made  to                                                                   
influence   an  election   there   must   be  a   disclosure.                                                                   
Representative  Gara  asked  for  APOC's  position  if  these                                                                   
groups   could  be   made  to   disclose   their  top   three                                                                   
contributors.  Ms.  Hill  responded that  the  Alaska  Public                                                                   
Office Commission staff cannot render an opinion.                                                                               
2:41:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kelly  noted that with the U.S.  Supreme Court                                                                   
decision   on  contributions,   questions  will  be   raised,                                                                   
therefore  the  chair  and  sponsor   need  to  provide  more                                                                   
Representative  Fairclough questioned  if  the Department  of                                                                   
Law could research  if there were constitutional  issues that                                                                   
resulted  in some  state courts  ruling to  overturn some  of                                                                   
these proposals.                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze referred to a  question with the fiscal note                                                                   
and asked why the department needs the extra resources.                                                                         
Representative   Gara  contended  there   will  be   a  legal                                                                   
challenge  to parts  of the  bill that  have been  challenged                                                                   
beofre, therefore he wondered  if the Department of Law would                                                                   
add  a fiscal  note  for this.  Mr.  Ptacin  agreed that  the                                                                   
Department of  Law could add  a fiscal note.  Co-Chair Hawker                                                                   
maintained that  the department  should continue with  a zero                                                                   
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
2:45:27 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Doogan  voiced concern about the  provision to                                                                   
require  public meetings  in each  district.  He wondered  if                                                                   
this requirement  puts an  unconstitutional burden  on either                                                                   
side proposing or opposing the  initiative. He also asked for                                                                   
the  department's  view  of  the  constitutionality  of  this                                                                   
provision. Mr. Ptacin  answered that it was best  to put this                                                                   
question in memo  form and the department would  study it and                                                                   
2:49:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Kelly alleged that  there could be a challenge                                                                   
from  those  who  believe  the   Lt.  Governor  came  to  the                                                                   
community  to   try  and  sell   or  refute  an   initiative.                                                                   
Representative Doogan agreed and  wondered whether the system                                                                   
was being set up to tilt the playing  field so that one group                                                                   
would need more money than the other group.                                                                                     
Representative  Kelly requested  answers  to these  questions                                                                   
because a challenge  could be made that the  Lt. Governor had                                                                   
his own agenda.                                                                                                                 
Representative Austerman cited  the necessity of not mingling                                                                   
the  initiative  process  and  legislative  election  process                                                                   
within  this  initiative  bill,  so that  it  stays  just  an                                                                   
initiative decision.                                                                                                            
2:52:44 PM                                                                                                                    
CHIP  THOMA, JUNEAU  read  from a  prepared  speech (copy  on                                                                   
     HB 36 is a Campaign Disclosure bill directed                                                                               
     specifically at those who support and oppose                                                                               
     Initiatives. Yet a few weeks ago, the U.S. Supreme                                                                       
     Court issued a ruling on the Bigger Issue of WHO can                                                                 
     Contribute to all political Campaigns and Issues,                                                                        
     federal & state. And the Answer is: All Bets Are Off.                                                                    
     It is wide open and could be a Major Sea Change in                                                                   
     Alaska politics very soon. HB 36 has no become Piece-                                                                    
     Meal legislation-a small piece of the Big Pie of                                                                       
     campaign contributions in Alaska. Alaska in An Oil                                                                         
     State - that is our Strength…and it also make us                                                                         
     Vulnerable to Mischief Created by Others. There are                                                                      
     Major Players at work here already-what if someone, or                                                                   
     some company want to Seriously Get Involved in oil                                                                       
     taxes - $10-20 million worth - can We Restrict that                                                                        
     Entity? As I said, Alaska in an Oil State - If Hugo                                                                    
     Chavez and CITCO oil company want to influence state                                                                       
     elections - or push initiatives, referendums, or                                                                           
     recalls, can we restrict these foreign players or not?                                                                   
     The question is now Wide Open - That's why  HB 36 is                                                                     
     Piece-meal - and passage without full review could                                                                         
     invite campaign mischief through unlimited financing.                                                                    
     Instead, there should be a Bipartisan Taskforce with                                                                     
     an Interim Committee of House and Senate members to                                                                        
     look at the big picture of campaign finance in Alaska                                                                    
     & HB36. Please hold HB 36 and review it with an                                                                          
     Interim Committee.                                                                                                         
Mr.  Thoma answered  Representative  Austerman's question  by                                                                   
reporting that  the Division of  Elections has  an initiative                                                                   
status  section  on their  website  that lists  all  proposed                                                                   
initiatives since 1995. He reported  reviewing the last eight                                                                   
years, since  2000, and noted  that 52 initiatives  have been                                                                   
proposed  to the  Division  of Elections.  He  added that  73                                                                   
percent were denied  or withdrawn, 15 percent  failed, and 12                                                                   
percent  passed for  a total  of  6 initiatives  passed in  8                                                                   
years.  In 2005  and 2006  there  were a  series of  lawsuits                                                                   
brought against  the Division of  Elections and the  state of                                                                   
Alaska by a group in opposition  to an initiative. Before the                                                                   
signatures  could be  checked and  authorized, lawsuits  were                                                                   
brought against  the process  taking months  to resolve  at a                                                                   
big cost to  the state and to those opposing  the initiative.                                                                   
He argued that if there were checks  on all the financing for                                                                   
those  collecting  signatures  then  the  finances  of  those                                                                   
opposed  to gathering  the signatures  should be checked.  He                                                                   
also contended that those in opposition  to an initiative are                                                                   
the ones  that spend the most  money. He added this  money is                                                                   
unregulated and could be from foreign interests.                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Thomas observed  that there  should be  a cap  on                                                                   
initiative  money similar  to  the governor  and  legislative                                                                   
2:58:19 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   HARRY   CRAWFORD   testified   against   the                                                                   
legislation. He reported than  in his 10 year experience this                                                                   
is  one  of  the  most  important   bills  he  has  seen.  He                                                                   
acknowledged,  in the  interest of full  disclosure,  that he                                                                   
has been involved in the initiatives  process in the past. He                                                                   
has been one of the three prime  sponsors on campaign finance                                                                   
reform,  a trust-the-people  initiative,  and  a reserve  tax                                                                   
initiative.  He  stated  that  every  section  of  HB  36  is                                                                   
targeted at making the initiative  process more difficult. He                                                                   
emphasized  that  there  is  one part  that  could  kill  the                                                                   
initiative process.  He provided a background  history of the                                                                   
initiative process from the early  western frontier days when                                                                   
some  corporations,  such  as   the  railroads,  were  taking                                                                   
control of different  legislatures in some states.  He stated                                                                   
that  there needed  to  be a  way for  people  to affect  the                                                                   
democratic  process  therefore  the  initiative  process  was                                                                   
formed. The  framers in Alaska  knew from experience  that an                                                                   
initiative  could  be  killed  in  the  very  beginning  when                                                                   
corporations came  in to intimidate  people trying to  put an                                                                   
initiative on  the ballot. Alaska  state law does not  have a                                                                   
disclosure  provision  in the  initial  process  so that  big                                                                   
corporations  cannot  come  in and  intimidate  those  people                                                                   
trying to  get the  initiative on the  ballot. He  added that                                                                   
once the  initiative is on  the ballot, there  are disclosure                                                                   
3:02:13 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Crawford  emphasized that HB 36  would put the                                                                   
choke  point  right  at  the  beginning  of  the  process  to                                                                   
intimidate  any potential  donors. He  mentioned the  Reserve                                                                   
Tax initiative  as a  perfect example  because people  within                                                                   
the oil  industry believed  that the  only way  to get  a gas                                                                   
line was  by a reserve  tax, so they  gave money to  help get                                                                   
the initiative on the ballot.  He stressed that had they been                                                                   
exposed at  that point, they would  have been fired  by their                                                                   
employers. The  second time the  reserve tax was  brought up,                                                                   
the  oil companies  went  to each  of  the  labor unions  and                                                                   
indicated  they would make  it difficult  if the labor  union                                                                   
supported  this tax.  He believed  intimidation  is real  and                                                                   
this bill  would allow  that to proceed.  He added  that when                                                                   
dealing with  the trust-the-people  initiative, the  sponsors                                                                   
had to go  to court four  times to overrule the  Lt. Governor                                                                   
to get the initiative on the ballot.                                                                                            
Representative Gara  stated that Representative  Crawford had                                                                   
broad experience with initiatives.  He pointed to a provision                                                                   
in HB  36 that says the  signature collectors cannot  be paid                                                                   
one dollar per  signature and wondered if  the Representative                                                                   
had  any thoughts  regarding  this.  Representative  Crawford                                                                   
replied that this provision would  make it more difficult for                                                                   
small entities  to fund  initiatives by  putting the  process                                                                   
under   the   minimum   wage  law   or   hourly   provisions.                                                                   
Representative Gara asked if Representative  Crawford had any                                                                   
concerns or  experience with  signature gatherers  not taking                                                                   
the time to explain or answer people's questions.                                                                               
3:07:12 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Crawford  responded   that  he  has  gathered                                                                   
thousands of  signatures on many  different subjects  and has                                                                   
never failed to  give someone all the  information requested.                                                                   
He  emphasized  that  when  trying   to  get  signatures  for                                                                   
initiatives it  is the sponsor's  intention there not  be any                                                                   
fraud  or liability  that can  throw the  initiative off  the                                                                   
ballot. Representative  Gara asked that since  the signatures                                                                   
get checked  by the  Division of Elections,  it would  not be                                                                   
worth  paying  someone  who  tried  to  defraud  the  system.                                                                   
Representative Crawford  emphasized that initiative  sponsors                                                                   
work too  hard to get initiative  on the ballot to  risk even                                                                   
the  slightest question  of misconduct.  Representative  Gara                                                                   
credited  Representative  Crawford  for  his hard  work  with                                                                   
3:10:14 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Fairclough referred to  Section 10  and asked                                                                   
the Department  of Law if there  was a requirement  that does                                                                   
not  allow  a  person or  an  organization  into  a  contract                                                                   
concerning wage  law. Mr. Ptacin  responded he cannot  take a                                                                   
position  on wage  and hour  laws. Representative  Fairclough                                                                   
repeated  her  question to  ask  if  Section 10  precludes  a                                                                   
contract.  Mr. Ptacin again  stated he  could not answer  the                                                                   
question and would like time to review it.                                                                                      
Representative Austerman wondered  if Representative Crawford                                                                   
thought there should  be a cap on some of the  dollar figures                                                                   
from inside and outside interests.                                                                                              
Representative  Crawford stated he  would like to  see limits                                                                   
put on how much an individual  or corporation can give to the                                                                   
initiative process. He informed  that in the Finance Campaign                                                                   
Reform  Act  a  limit  was  set   at  $3,000  for  individual                                                                   
campaigns or ten  percent of the total a person  collects. He                                                                   
emphasized that  he did not  want corporations to  speak more                                                                   
loudly through their money than an individual in the state.                                                                     
3:14:10 PM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Stoltze  contended that Representative  Crawford was                                                                   
passionate  about   his  experiences  of   individuals  being                                                                   
intimidated or facing recriminations  for open involvement in                                                                   
the  initiative  process. He  asked  if  this was  a  correct                                                                   
Representative  Crawford   observed  that   Co-Chair  Stoltze                                                                   
represented his  thoughts perfectly. Representative  Crawford                                                                   
maintained  that  there  were  intimidating  visits  made  by                                                                   
opposing  sides  of  the Reserve  Tax  issue  to  individuals                                                                   
supporting the initiative.                                                                                                      
Co-Chair Stoltze asked  if he felt that the  real concern for                                                                   
the privacy issue was to protect individuals.                                                                                   
Representative  Crawford responded that  the choke  point was                                                                   
when you can stop the process right at the very beginning.                                                                      
Co-Chair Stoltze  noted that the word "secret  ballot" seemed                                                                   
very  important.  Representative  Crawford  agreed.  Co-Chair                                                                   
Stoltze observed that there was  a national debate on a union                                                                   
bill and he was curious about elections.                                                                                        
Representative  Gara believed  that the  "big money"  funding                                                                   
ads  gets  reported to  APOC  at  present resulting  in  some                                                                   
disclosure, but not for the people  gathering the signatures.                                                                   
He believed it important to see  who was funding the ads, but                                                                   
had more  difficulty understanding the  need to know  who was                                                                   
providing funding at the beginning.                                                                                             
Representative  Crawford responded that  the way  the present                                                                   
law reads that once an initiative  is approved for the ballot                                                                   
and  becomes a  campaign, then  disclosure  is mandatory.  He                                                                   
noted that HB 36 wanted disclosure  on who is giving money at                                                                   
the very beginning, the choke  point and HB 36 would take the                                                                   
process  out  of  the  hands  of  Alaskans  to  affect  their                                                                   
3:19:21 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  ERIC  CROFT  (via  teleconference),  remarked                                                                   
that the initiative  process is a constitutional  right given                                                                   
to the people to limit and check  legislative power. He urged                                                                   
all legislators  to remember  that it  was intentionally  put                                                                   
there  for that  purpose  and they  should  take a  hands-off                                                                   
approach.  Its purpose  is to be  unpopular with  legislators                                                                   
and  he agreed  it  is.  Legislators  are frustrated  by  the                                                                   
initiative  process, but  again  that is  the  purpose to  do                                                                   
things  the  legislature decided  not  to  do. He  urged  the                                                                   
committee not  to put up bars  on people's rights and  to not                                                                   
pass  this bill.  He  acknowledged that  it  does damage  the                                                                   
initiative  rights  in  some areas  by  making  an  efficient                                                                   
method  more difficult.  He added that  the founding  members                                                                   
believed in a  robust initiative process for  the people, but                                                                   
did  put on  limitations;  constitutional  changes cannot  be                                                                   
handled through  the initiative  process. He believed  Alaska                                                                   
needs to be  very careful when using other  states as models.                                                                   
He noted three different standards  used throughout the bill.                                                                   
On page  one it  notes a  group organized  for the  principle                                                                   
purpose  of filing  an  initiative, later  it  talks about  a                                                                   
group that has  filed an initiative and even  later where the                                                                   
Lt. Governor determines  if it was properly  filed. These are                                                                   
three  different  stages in  the  initiative  right that  the                                                                   
people  possess. He  noted that  having the  idea, having  it                                                                   
filed,  and having  it  approved  are very  different  branch                                                                   
points and this bill covers each of them.                                                                                       
3:27:47 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Croft continued  with his  objection to  this                                                                   
bill. He contended  that HB 36 puts limits that  run from the                                                                   
inconvenient,  to   debilitating,  to  unconstitutional.   He                                                                   
declared  that   the  government  should  stay   out  of  the                                                                   
initiative process.                                                                                                             
3:29:53 PM                                                                                                                    
JASON   BRUNY,  EXECUTIVE   DIRECTOR,  RESOURCE   DEVELOPMENT                                                                   
COUNCIL (via teleconference),  testified in support of HB 36.                                                                   
The Resource  Development Council  appreciated the  rights of                                                                   
Alaskans to change state law through  the initiative process,                                                                   
but  contended that  a number  of  proposed initiatives  have                                                                   
been brought  forth that  do not have  the best interests  of                                                                   
the state or the people of Alaska.  He argued that the public                                                                   
is often misled by signature gathering  tactics. The Resource                                                                   
Development  Council believed  that transparency  must  be at                                                                   
the forefront  of good  government. He  pointed out  that Vic                                                                   
Fisher, one of the 55 delegates  to the Alaska Constitutional                                                                   
convention   and  a  previous   ballot  initiative   sponsor,                                                                   
believed that  the imitative was  a device that  lends itself                                                                   
to special  interests and groups  that want to  get something                                                                   
that  they cannot  get through  the  legislative process.  He                                                                   
declared that special interests  have embraced the initiative                                                                   
process over  the last decade.  He noted  that in the  past 5                                                                   
years that Alaska  business community has been  the target of                                                                   
numerous punitive ballot initiatives  pushed by anti-business                                                                   
and environmental  interest groups.  This bill would  require                                                                   
both public  and legislative  hearings for initiatives  which                                                                   
he believed  to be good idea.  Mr. Bruny believed  that those                                                                   
trying  to  change state  law  should  be  held to  the  same                                                                   
standard  as legislators  to  disclose  the source  of  their                                                                   
funds  while gathering  signatures statewide.  He added  that                                                                   
the RDC will  actively oppose an amendment that  prohibits or                                                                   
limits  outside contributions  to this  process. He  remarked                                                                   
that  many outside  companies  invest  in Alaska  and  employ                                                                   
Alaskans  and  should have  a  right  to participate  in  the                                                                   
process. He concluded that standards  must be put in place to                                                                   
ensure  a candid  process and  he applauded  the sponsor  and                                                                   
authors of the bill.                                                                                                            
3:34:57 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative  Gara asked Mr.  Bruny if  he cared  about the                                                                   
provision on how signatures gatherers were paid.                                                                                
Mr. Bruny  maintained that he  has witnessed first  hand that                                                                   
signature  gatherers  want  to  get  as  many  signatures  as                                                                   
possible and often do not answer  questions. He believed that                                                                   
to  inform  and  educate  the  people,  questions  about  the                                                                   
initiative need to be answered.                                                                                                 
Representative  Gara asked  if  someone gathering  signatures                                                                   
who will not talk  or answer question, did he  want a rule to                                                                   
make them  have to  speak. Mr. Bruny  wanted a process  where                                                                   
information  is  dispensed to  the  people by  the  signature                                                                   
gatherer and  he believed  that removing  the one dollar  per                                                                   
signature would accomplish this.                                                                                                
Representative  Gara continued  that  Mr.  Bruny was  arguing                                                                   
that  a  gatherer  might  have   the  incentive  to  get  the                                                                   
signature quickly  under the one  dollar per signature  rule,                                                                   
but the bill now says that the  gatherer can be paid on their                                                                   
productivity, so  he wondered how this changes  anything. Mr.                                                                   
Bruny agreed that  they can be paid on being  productive, but                                                                   
at present  that is not  the case. He  believed this to  be a                                                                   
more responsible way to gather signatures.                                                                                      
3:38:57 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Austerman wanted  clarification regarding caps                                                                   
on  the amount  of  money  that a  group  in or  outside  can                                                                   
contribute for an initiative campaign.                                                                                          
Mr.  Bruny replied  that  he would  not  want outside  groups                                                                   
trying  to get  initiatives passed  without the  will of  the                                                                   
people being  considered, but  many of the outside  companies                                                                   
employ Alaskans  and should be  able to defend  themselves in                                                                   
this process.                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair Stoltze closed public testimony.                                                                                       
3:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
Representative Johansen  closed by asserting that  the intent                                                                   
of the bill is about the disclosure  of money spent to change                                                                   
state statute.  He believed the  people of Alaska  have right                                                                   
to know who is spending money  and how much. He restated that                                                                   
the public  right to know  outweighs any actual  or perceived                                                                   
acts of intimidation.                                                                                                           
Representative Gara  appreciated the way bill  was presented,                                                                   
but  did  not  understand  the  disclosure.  He  agreed  that                                                                   
Alaskans  do want  to  know who  is paying  for  the ads  and                                                                   
contributing  to an initiative,  but in  the beginning  there                                                                   
might be a local  issue concerned citizens want  to deal with                                                                   
and he wondered  why the disclosure was so  important at this                                                                   
Representative Johansen maintained  that he does not see mass                                                                   
intimidation  as an issue,  but the  disclosure of  all money                                                                   
that could change Alaska's laws.                                                                                                
HB  36   was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  Committee   for  further                                                                   
3:48:11 PM                                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
01 HB36 Sponsor Statement.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
06 HB36 Letters SupportOpposition.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
07 HB36 Legal Opinions.pdf HFIN 4/18/2009 8:30:00 AM
HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
HB 36 Sectional Analysis Version S CSSSHB36 Recent.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
02 HB 225 Sponsor Statement.doc HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/11/2010 9:00:00 AM
HSTA 4/14/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 225
03 HB 225 Sectional Analysis.doc HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HSTA 4/14/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 225
CSHB225 Explanation of Changes HFIN.doc HFIN 4/16/2009 8:30:00 AM
HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HB 225
SSHB 36 Backup.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
HB36 NEW Fiscal Note Admin.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36
HB36 Thoma Opinion.pdf HFIN 2/8/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM
HB 36