Legislature(2015 - 2016)GRUENBERG 120

04/12/2016 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
-- Public & Invited Testimony --
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
-- Public & Invited Testimony --
Moved CSHB 200(HSS) Out of Committee
-- Public & Invited Testimony --
Moved CSSB 180(JUD) Out of Committee
-- Public & Invited Testimony --
Moved HB 334 Out of Committee
-- Public & Invited Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
         SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK                                                                      
4:04:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  announced that  the final  order of  business would                                                               
SENATE  BILL NO.  174,  "An  Act relating  to  the regulation  of                                                               
firearms and knives by the University of Alaska."                                                                               
4:05:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  PETE KELLY  advised  there was  a  conflict between  the                                                               
Board  of  Regents  policy,  the Constitution  of  the  State  of                                                               
Alaska, and Alaska's Statutes.   In 2003, he related, under House                                                               
Bill  102, it  became legal  to have  a concealed  carry in  this                                                               
state.  He  described it as a blanket legislation.   He said that                                                               
subsequent to that law, the  University of Alaska put into policy                                                               
that concealed carry  was not allowed, put up  red signs advising                                                               
that no one could  have a gun on campus, and  there was a campus-                                                               
wide restriction  on the carrying  of weapons.    He  stated that                                                               
the state  constitution is specific  about the right to  keep and                                                               
bear  arms in  the  State  of Alaska,  and  it  is more  strongly                                                               
specified  than  the Constitution  of  the  United States.    The                                                               
Constitution of the State of Alaska  reads that the right to keep                                                               
and bear arms is an individual  right.  Currently, he said, there                                                               
are 150 campuses  in the United States  allowing concealed carry,                                                               
and  eight  states put  that  into  specific legislation.    This                                                               
legislation  was   originally  drafted  to  mirror   a  piece  of                                                               
legislation that had  gone through the process a  couple of years                                                               
ago.   The University of  Alaska pointed out their  concerns and,                                                               
he  noted, that  a couple  of unique  concerns involved  the fact                                                               
that  the  university  deals  with  domestic  violence  disputes,                                                               
employee and student disputes,  investigations of those disputes,                                                               
assaults, and it has dormitories.   Changes were made in the bill                                                               
allowing  the university  to restrict  weapons in  specific areas                                                               
where  the university  handles disputes,  and  that the  firearms                                                               
must be  secure in the  dormitories.  Essentially,  he explained,                                                               
the legislation  makes it  so the  university has  to be  in line                                                               
with  other places  in the  state.   Alaskans have  the right  to                                                               
defend  themselves  and,  he  described  the  current  university                                                               
policy as  a red sign saying  bad guys don't carry  weapons here,                                                               
which does  not meet  any test  it would  put forward  to provide                                                               
safety,  if that  is  its  intent.   He  related  that it  unduly                                                               
restricts the constitutional  rights of Alaskans and  it does not                                                               
have  the  authority to  do  that,  because the  authority  rests                                                               
within the legislature and the  provisions of the Constitution of                                                               
the State  of Alaska.  That  is essentially what this  bill does,                                                               
he said.                                                                                                                        
4:10:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KELLY reiterated that this  bill recognizes that Alaskans                                                               
have  the right  to keep  and  bear arms.   He  explained that  a                                                               
motivation for  the legislation was the  San Bernardino shooting,                                                               
and multiple  shootings in  the United States  over the  past few                                                               
years.  Since  1955, all but two of the  mass public shootings in                                                               
the  United States  have  happened in  gun free  zones.   When  a                                                               
person that normally  has the right to defend  themselves is told                                                               
that they  cannot defend  themselves in  these areas  they become                                                               
soft targets for the bad guys.   He related that one of the items                                                               
on the shooters  plan, at the Virginia  Polytechnic Institute and                                                               
State University (Virginia Tech) shooting,  was that it was a gun                                                               
free zone.  He said, with  regard to the Century movie theater in                                                               
Aurora,  Colorado shooting,  there were  eight other  theaters in                                                               
that city, but  that particular theater was posted as  a gun free                                                               
zone.  The choices made by the  people who will do violence do it                                                               
in  places where  they do  not  have people  shooting back,  they                                                               
don't  want  to  be  interrupted   in  their  mission  by  people                                                               
defending  themselves  and,  he  commented, that  many  of  those                                                               
people will ultimately commit suicide.   He opined the University                                                               
of Alaska  has made itself  a large  target, not only  for people                                                               
who are unstable, but also members  of ISIS that have gained more                                                               
and more  strength in the  country.   When ISIS comes  to Alaska,                                                               
the sponsor wants to be  certain Alaskans are prepared, and able,                                                               
to  defend themselves,  and are  not breaking  the law  when they                                                               
carry out their  "god given right," he said.   He stated that the                                                               
University  of  Alaska  is  against this  bill  on,  probably,  a                                                               
philosophical basis, or it does not  think it is able to manage a                                                               
citizenry carrying out  its constitutional rights.   He noted the                                                               
university's complaint that it is  not able to restrict someone's                                                               
right to carry if they are  a threat to themselves or others, and                                                               
said  that  currently exists  in  law,  under  a Title  47  hold.                                                               
Senator Kelly advised Chair LeDoux that he had to leave ...                                                                     
4:14:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  interjected that  while she realizes  he is  a busy                                                               
man,  there are  three  questions she  would like  to  ask.   She                                                               
referred to secured  guns in the dormitories, and  asked why that                                                               
would not be constitutionally  prohibited because the dormitories                                                               
are  the student's  living  area.   She  referred  to the  Senate                                                               
Finance Committee zeroing out the  fiscal note, and asked for the                                                               
rationale.    She  then  referred  to  letters  from  the  public                                                               
pointing out that people with guns  are not allowed in the Juneau                                                               
Capitol Building where  the legislature resides.   The public has                                                               
asked why the people working at  the University of Alaska have to                                                               
deal  with people  with guns  when they  are not  allowed in  the                                                               
legislative building.                                                                                                           
4:15:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KELLY responded,  with  regard to  the dormitories,  the                                                               
bill reads that  people must keep the weapon in  a lockbox with a                                                               
self-locking mechanism.                                                                                                         
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked what good is  having the gun in  a lockbox if                                                               
someone breaks into the dormitory.                                                                                              
4:15:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KELLY answered  that  the bill  provides  that a  person                                                               
either has it  on their person, or  it's in a lockbox.   It would                                                               
be against the rules for a  person, leaving their dormitory for a                                                               
long  period of  time, to  leave it  in there  where it  could be                                                               
stolen.    The  idea  is that  with  responsible  gun  ownership,                                                               
certain things  are wired into  gun owners, such that  the person                                                               
has  control  of  their  weapon  or  has  secured  their  weapon.                                                               
Although, he related,  the gun can remain in the  lockbox if they                                                               
are going shopping, or gone for  a short period of time.  Senator                                                               
Kelly said  he does not want  people leaving their guns  in their                                                               
dormitories for a long period of time.                                                                                          
CHAIR LEDOUX asked  whether the gun has  to be in a  lockbox if a                                                               
person  is in  their  room in  the dormitory,  or  whether it  is                                                               
alright if they are in their room with the gun.                                                                                 
SENATOR KELLY replied  that the gun has to be  on their person or                                                               
in the lockbox, which is basic responsible gun ownership.                                                                       
SENATOR  KELLY  referred  to  zeroing out  the  fiscal  note  and                                                               
offered that  other states  had put  forward large  fiscal notes,                                                               
but those  fiscal notes were  never funded because they  were not                                                               
necessary.  He offered that the  red signs do not work, but areas                                                               
where  the  university  is   investigating  a  domestic  violence                                                               
situation in a certain room,  it is reasonable for the university                                                               
to restrict weapons from that area.   He described it as a simple                                                               
matter that does not require  wands and magnetic metal detectors,                                                               
"it  allows them  to restrict  in  that manner."   Similarly,  he                                                               
noted, courts do  not allow weapons and the  courts have magnetic                                                               
metal detectors, but  he does not feel that is  necessary for the                                                               
university because it will not  be dealing with heightened levels                                                               
of  criminality that  the courts  deals with  on an  hour-by-hour                                                               
4:18:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KELLY  referred to the difference  between the university                                                               
and  legislators   [and  restricting   people  with   guns],  and                                                               
responded that this bill is not  about the legislature.  If there                                                               
is a  desire for another  bill, he  commented that he  just might                                                               
sponsor that bill.  This  bill is regarding the university campus                                                               
and he  unsure about adding it  to the bill because  there may be                                                               
complications he is unaware of at this late date, he remarked.                                                                  
4:18:58 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN referred  to  the lockbox  idea and  asked                                                               
whether it  would be in  a student's room  or on the  main floor,                                                               
and whether a lockbox is like a safe.                                                                                           
SENATOR KELLY advised that the  lockbox would be in the student's                                                               
room, and  a lockbox is similar  to a safe except  it is smaller.                                                               
Although, he explained that a safe  could be used because the gun                                                               
would  be  even more  secure.    He  further explained  that  the                                                               
lockbox is safer, and the bill  specifies that it must be made of                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  referred to the Constitution  of the State                                                               
of  Alaska providing  a greater  right to  possess arms  than the                                                               
Constitution of the United States,  and asked whether he is aware                                                               
of any Alaska Supreme Court case making that finding.                                                                           
SENATOR KELLY advised that he  is mostly tracking court cases for                                                               
the Alaska  Supreme Court where  there has been an  argument that                                                               
the right  to keep and  bear arms is  a general right  in Alaska.                                                               
When  reading the  Constitution of  the State  of Alaska  on this                                                               
matter, it reads that it is an individual right, he said.                                                                       
4:20:37 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  referred to Ravin  v. State, 537  P.2d 494                                                             
(Alaska 1975),  involving marijuana  where the court  found there                                                               
was a greater right to  privacy than in the federal constitution,                                                               
and asked  whether he was aware  of an Alaska Supreme  Court case                                                               
that makes a similar finding.                                                                                                   
SENATOR KELLY said, no.                                                                                                         
4:20:50 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN referred  to his  statement regarding  the                                                               
constitutional right to bear arms,  and asked whether a homeowner                                                               
has  the right  to  tell  his dinner  guests  that  guns are  not                                                               
allowed in the house and to leave them in the car.                                                                              
SENATOR KELLY  responded that that  issue is not  contemplated in                                                               
this bill, this involves the university.                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  said that he  asked the question  in terms                                                               
of Senator Kelly's  conception of the right to bear  arms and how                                                               
it weighs  on other  constitutional rights.   He  then reiterated                                                               
the question  and asked  whether the neighbor  can say  that guns                                                               
are not  allowed in his house,  and whether that would  be within                                                               
his constitutional right to tell the  guest to put the gun in the                                                               
SENATOR  KELLY responded  that  the  property owner,  absolutely,                                                               
would have  the right  to say  that guns are  not allowed  in his                                                               
CHAIR  LEDOUX pointed  out that  the  neighbor's house  is not  a                                                               
public building.                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  agreed, and he referred  to the comparison                                                               
between the  Alaska Court  System, which  has taken  the position                                                               
that it can bar weapons from  the public courthouse, he asked why                                                               
it is  not within the  university's right,  as the owner  of that                                                               
public  space, to  make these  same determinations.   He  further                                                               
asked how the university differs from the court system.                                                                         
SENATOR KELLY responded that there  is somewhat of a wall between                                                               
the  legislature  being  able  to impose  rules  on  the  courts,                                                               
although, there  is some  authority to  do that,  but there  is a                                                               
separation of powers between the  legislature and the court.  The                                                               
right to keep and bear arms has  evolved over time.  The right of                                                               
the court to say  that the court is in session  and guns are left                                                               
outside the  courthouse has  been part  of the  American culture,                                                               
and it is accepted  by gun advocates.  He noted  he is unaware of                                                               
anyone that  supports guns in  the courtroom due to  the criminal                                                               
nature, contentious nature, and adversarial nature of court.                                                                    
4:23:36 PM                                                                                                                    
JOE BYRNES, Staff, Senator Pete  Kelly, Alaska State Legislature,                                                               
referred to  the fiscal note  and advised that the  University of                                                               
Alaska  requested $1.3  million  because it  referenced the  same                                                               
amount as the  University of Idaho system had  requested in order                                                               
to  implement  its campus  carry  system.    The State  of  Idaho                                                               
legislature never  funded the University of  Idaho's request, and                                                               
he said,  "they found that the  fiscal note, and I  think we feel                                                               
likewise to the fiscal note, on  -- the university has offered on                                                               
SB 174, um ... it was an  attempt to oppose the bill."  Although,                                                               
he said, the University of  Idaho system did implement long over-                                                               
due  security  changes.  Currently,  he  commented,  all  of  the                                                               
University of  Alaska campus security  forces are armed,  and are                                                               
actual peace officers.   He questioned, why  allowing law abiding                                                               
citizens to  carry concealed handguns  on campus would  require a                                                               
sudden increase in security if  the university currently believes                                                               
its policy  adequately protects its  campus.  He then  offered to                                                               
go through the sectional of the bill.                                                                                           
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked that he  focus on the most  important aspects                                                               
of the bill.                                                                                                                    
4:25:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BYRNES  agreed, and referred to  Section 1, page 1,  lines 6-                                                               
10, which read as follows:                                                                                                      
     FINDINGS AND  INTENT.  The  legislature finds  that the                                                                    
     individual   right  to   keep  and   bear  arms   is  a                                                                    
     constitutionally  protected right  under  art. 1,  sec.                                                                    
     19, Constitution  of the State  of Alaska, and  may not                                                                    
     be abridged by  the Board of Regents  of the University                                                                    
     of Alaska.   The legislature reserves to  the state the                                                                    
     authority to regulate  firearms, except as specifically                                                                    
     provided in AS. 14.40.173.                                                                                                 
MR. BYRNES  advised it adds  the findings and intent  language to                                                               
uncodified law.                                                                                                                 
MR. BYRNES  advised that Sec.  2 amends the University  of Alaska                                                               
Community  College statutes  under Title  14, and  makes explicit                                                               
that the  authority to regulate  firearms and knives  is reserved                                                               
to  the  state, except  as  provided  in  statute, the  Board  of                                                               
Regents may not regulate firearms  and knives.  He explained that                                                               
the  Board of  Regents  may regulate,  through this  legislation,                                                               
includes:  open  carry  firearms; restricting  the  discharge  of                                                               
firearms on land  where there is a  reasonable likelihood people,                                                               
animals,  or property  will  be in  jeopardy;  the possession  of                                                               
firearms or knives in posted  restricted access areas, defined as                                                               
an area  beyond a  secure point where  visitors are  screened and                                                               
does not include  common areas of ingress and egress  open to the                                                               
public; and may include university  designated rooms where sexual                                                               
assault,   sexual   harassment,    or   domestic   violence   are                                                               
investigated   and  victim   assistance  is   provided;  and   in                                                               
university-designated  rooms  during  adjudication of  staff  and                                                               
student disciplinary issues and disputes.   He continued that the                                                               
Board  of  Regents  may  regulate the  carrying  of  firearms  in                                                               
dormitories   or   shared   living   quarters;   however,   those                                                               
regulations must  require that the  handgun is either  carried on                                                               
the  person or  secured in  an owner  provided lockbox.   Persons                                                               
living  in  dormitories  must declare  to  the  university  their                                                               
intention to  store a weapon in  their dormitory room.   He noted                                                               
that  the  university  may  privately   collect  and  store  that                                                               
information for  no more  than one  year, and  use it  for making                                                               
housing decisions  for students  who have  expressed they  do not                                                               
want to  share a  dormitory room  with a  person who  possesses a                                                               
4:27:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BYRNES  explained that the  sponsor is trying to  balance the                                                               
rights of students who wish to  carry their right to privacy, and                                                               
the  rights of  students not  desiring to  share their  dormitory                                                               
room  with  a  person  possessing a  firearm.    Furthermore,  he                                                               
advised,  the  bill  prohibits   the  following:  the  university                                                               
creating a database or registry  of persons who possess a firearm                                                               
on campus;  requiring permission  before a  person may  possess a                                                               
firearm  on  campus;  or adopting  implied  consent  policies  on                                                               
campus.    The bill  also  contains  a civil  liability  immunity                                                               
section  that   states  the  university  is   immune  from  civil                                                               
liability  for any  act or  omission resulting  from a  policy or                                                               
regulation adopted  or enforced  under this section  of law.   He                                                               
offered that the University of Alaska requested that provision.                                                                 
MR. BYRNES explained that Sec. 3,  adds an effective date for the                                                               
bill of August  1, 2016, to address the  university's concern for                                                               
enough  time  to  promulgate  conformed  regulations  before  the                                                               
upcoming  semester.   He  then  listed  individuals available  to                                                               
answer questions.                                                                                                               
4:29:24 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  pointed to his reference  about restricted                                                               
access  areas, and  asked where  it  is located  within the  bill                                                               
4:29:35 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BYRNES  responded that restricted access  areas are mentioned                                                               
on page  2, line 16, and  are defined on  page 4, lines 3-5.   He                                                               
explained  that the  restricted  access area  is  a secure  point                                                               
beyond which  visitors are screened,  and does not  include areas                                                               
of common ingress  and egress open to the public.   He noted that                                                               
this  exact  language  is  also  found  in  Title  29,  Municipal                                                               
regulation of  firearms statutes, because municipalities  are not                                                               
allowed to  regulate firearms  beyond what is  found in  the law,                                                               
but are allowed to erect these restricted access areas.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS advised that  he spoke with friends                                                               
who had hunted  since they were young children,  and also trusted                                                               
police officers.   He  advised that his  hunting friends,  one of                                                               
which  had  taken a  marksmanship  course  at the  University  of                                                               
Alaska Fairbanks,  advised that  stress can  affect aim,  and the                                                               
police  officers  advised  that  in  high  stress  and  dangerous                                                               
situations it  is difficult to identify  hostiles versus friendly                                                               
people.  He then referenced  Senator's Kelly's comments regarding                                                               
several mass shootings  and opined that the  clear implication is                                                               
that this is  seen as legislation that will advance  the right to                                                               
self-defense.  He asked what  precedence exists of attempted mass                                                               
killings, cut short by intervention  from everyday people who may                                                               
carry  concealed   weapons,  and  that  their   actions  directly                                                               
resulted in a better outcome.                                                                                                   
MR.  BYRNES responded  that  he  does not  have  a  study at  his                                                               
disposal, although, he offered that  FBI statistics indicate that                                                               
retaliating  people  have  an  overwhelmingly  better  chance  of                                                               
getting  out  of   their  ordeal  better  than   if  they  didn't                                                               
retaliate.   Although,  he  acknowledged,  that statistic  didn't                                                               
have  examples of  how the  people retaliated.   Anecdotally,  he                                                               
said,  there  are  many  cases  where  armed  citizens  have  de-                                                               
escalated situations by  having a gun.  He pointed  out that when                                                               
it  comes to  violence on  campus and  the fear  that more  armed                                                               
persons on campus will cause  an increase in violence or increase                                                               
in suicide,  that burden of proof  rests with people who  wish to                                                               
deny  the right  to begin  with.   He  said  that in  all of  the                                                               
concealed carry campuses there has  not been a marked increase in                                                               
violence  or  suicide.   Therefore,  he  commented, the  evidence                                                               
shows that, overall, this would not be an issue.                                                                                
4:36:05 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  referred  to the  active  shooter                                                               
training provided  at the  Capitol Building,  and noted  that the                                                               
basic take  away was that  defensive retaliation  is appropriate.                                                               
He said he agrees there has  probably not been an increase of gun                                                               
violence or  suicides on campuses  adopting concealed  carry, but                                                               
he  would  like  to  know   what  insurance  companies  think  in                                                               
evaluating  the  risks,  and  how  it may,  or  may  not,  affect                                                               
policies, which is a market based test.                                                                                         
4:37:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BRYNES answered that he  does not have any actuarial analysis                                                               
from insurance providers,  but there has not been  an increase in                                                               
violence.   He added that  the four instances that  occurred have                                                               
been accidental  discharges from irresponsible use  with non-life                                                               
threatening injuries.   He commented that concealed  carry is for                                                               
the  self-defense of  the  person  who is  carrying,  and not  to                                                               
protect  other people.   He  advised  that the  sponsor does  not                                                               
contemplate  or  encourage  creating  amateur  armed  swat  teams                                                               
roaming  around  campuses  to  take  out the  bad  guys  in  mass                                                               
shooting, and  described it as  irresponsible behavior.   In many                                                               
situations,  he commented,  where a  person has  been threatened,                                                               
the  mere  brandishing  of  a  gun  may  have  de-escalated  that                                                               
situation, and currently on campus that is not allowed.                                                                         
CHAIR  LEDOUX pointed  out that  Europe does  not have  concealed                                                               
carry  due  to stringent  gun  control  laws,  and it  is  highly                                                               
unlikely  the people  in Brussels  or Paris  were carrying  guns.                                                               
Alaska,  she said,  has a  fairly broad  concealed carry  law and                                                               
Alaska could be the only area a study could take place.                                                                         
4:41:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX turned  to Michael  Hostina,  University of  Alaska                                                               
Fairbanks, and  noted that,  currently, guns  are not  allowed on                                                               
campus, but  Alaska has a  broad concealed carry law  in general.                                                               
She asked  how he would know  whether someone is carrying  a gun,                                                               
because they are  not required to go through  metal detectors and                                                               
they are not frisked.                                                                                                           
4:42:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHAEL  HOSTINA, General  Counsel,  clarified  that weapons  are                                                               
permitted on campus under certain  circumstances and students may                                                               
have their weapons  stored in secure storage.   There are various                                                               
events on  campus to which  weapons may  be carried, such  as gun                                                               
shows, the  rifle team where  people may  check in and  check out                                                               
their  weapons, and  people  in faculty  and  single housing  are                                                               
permitted to  store weapons.   Weapons are  not permitted  in the                                                               
dormitories  and concealed  carry is  not generally  permitted on                                                               
campus.    He explained  that  the  university becomes  aware  of                                                               
someone  carrying a  weapon  when they  act  in an  inappropriate                                                               
manner, such as threatening  someone, demonstrating their weapon,                                                               
or the weapon  is mishandled and falls out.   When the university                                                               
becomes  aware of  a  person carrying  a gun  it  takes steps  to                                                               
administratively remove those weapons from campus.                                                                              
4:43:33 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN referred  to the  restricted access  areas                                                               
listed  in the  bill  and  asked his  understanding  of what  the                                                               
university would be required to do, to create those areas.                                                                      
MR. HOSTINA responded that a  sign is not sufficient to establish                                                               
a  restricted  access  area, and  currently  the  university,  by                                                               
policy,  may  limit weapons  in  areas  such as,  a  disciplinary                                                               
hearing or  an investigative meeting.   With the passage  of this                                                               
bill,  the university  would  not  be able  to  enforce a  policy                                                               
unless it  had established a  secure point beyond  which visitors                                                               
are screened.   In order to regulate weapons in  those areas, the                                                               
university  would have  to establish  the restricted  access area                                                               
and, he said, that's the definition of a restricted access area.                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CLAMAN  asked   whether   that  involves   metal                                                               
detectors or a  guard sitting at the secure access  point using a                                                               
hand wand to check for weapons.                                                                                                 
MR. HOSTINA answered  that that is not clear and,  he pointed out                                                               
the best  way to set  up the university's restricted  access area                                                               
is not  clear.  Therefore, he  explained, the fiscal note  has an                                                               
expense associated with  it, which is now limited to  the cost of                                                               
a security analysis.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  asked whether the university  could have a                                                               
secure   access  point,   without  having   something  different,                                                               
screening for weapons.   Or, he asked, would  the university have                                                               
to have something that screens for  weapons to make it qualify as                                                               
a restricted access area.                                                                                                       
4:45:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HOSTINA opined that someone  disadvantage by the university's                                                               
enforcement of  a restricted  access area,  that did  not include                                                               
some type  of screening,  would certainly  have an  argument that                                                               
the university had  not complied with the law.   The university's                                                               
ability to enforce  requires it to establish some  form of secure                                                               
point, and some form of screening,  otherwise it will not be able                                                               
to enforce that aspect of the law.                                                                                              
4:46:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX noted  that,  currently,  the university  basically                                                               
does not  allow any  guns on  campus, and asked  why it  does not                                                               
have  a wand  to  test everyone.    She then  asked  why, if  the                                                               
university  is now  allowing guns  on campus,  that people  would                                                               
have to go through the wand  exercise.  Clearly, she pointed out,                                                               
a good portion  of the university is in Fairbanks  and there must                                                               
be many people carrying guns in Fairbanks.                                                                                      
MR. HOSTINA  replied that he  does not  know whether that  is the                                                               
case or not, or whether it is more likely in Anchorage, or not.                                                                 
CHAIR LEDOUX  interject that the university  doesn't know whether                                                               
a person  is carrying because a  wand is not used;  therefore, if                                                               
it is  so important to  check everyone, why isn't  the university                                                               
using the wands now.                                                                                                            
MR.  HOSTINA explained  that  it is  a matter  of  being able  to                                                               
respond  when   the  university   becomes  aware  of   an  issue.                                                               
Currently, he  said, if the  university becomes aware  of someone                                                               
violating its policy,  the university can do  something about it.                                                               
Under  this  bill,  the  university  would  not  be  able  to  do                                                               
something about someone carrying  on campus unless the university                                                               
had established  a restricted access  area.  He pointed  out that                                                               
the bill establishes a restricted  access area to prevent weapons                                                               
from being involved in adjudications or investigations.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN asked  whether, currently,  the university                                                               
is  involved   in  investigations   of  sexual   assault,  sexual                                                               
harassment, domestic violence, and providing victim assistance.                                                                 
MR.  HOSTINA  responded  that  the   university  is  involved  in                                                               
investigations and  assistance on  a daily  basis.   He explained                                                               
there  are issues  such as,  sexual  harassment, sexual  assault,                                                               
other assaults,  student disciplinary issues,  staff disciplinary                                                               
issues,  disputes  involving  student grades,  and  removal  from                                                               
programs.   Those adjudications and investigations  take place on                                                               
a daily basis on the campuses of the university, he reiterated.                                                                 
4:48:53 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  surmised  that,   under  this  bill,  the                                                               
university  would be  required to  create something  akin to  the                                                               
courthouse  wherein people  are  screened prior  to entering  the                                                               
courthouse.  He  said that under this bill,  the university would                                                               
no longer assume people were obeying  the rules of the campus and                                                               
not carrying weapons.                                                                                                           
MR. HOSTINA agreed.                                                                                                             
CHAIR  LEDOUX asked  why the  university  would currently  assume                                                               
that  people are  not carrying  weapons  just because  a sign  is                                                               
posted that  says "no guns."   She continued that  the courthouse                                                               
does not assume that people do not have guns.                                                                                   
MR.  HOSTINA opined  that  the university  does  not assume  that                                                               
people do  not have guns, but  it does let people  know that that                                                               
is the policy of the university.   The university can ask them to                                                               
declare whether they  have a firearm, and can ask  them to remove                                                               
it  from  the campus.    Alternatively,  he noted,  with  younger                                                               
people  who carry,  many may  be responsible,  but there  will be                                                               
some  who will  brag to  their  friends or  roommates [about  the                                                               
gun], or  possibly try  to intimidate  someone.   Currently, when                                                               
the  university becomes  aware of  that [behavior],  it can  take                                                               
action.   Although, he  said, that  would not  be the  case under                                                               
this bill, it would have to occur in a secure area.                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  for  clarification that  if                                                               
someone  was brandishing  a gun,  intimidating,  or showing  off,                                                               
asked whether  anyone would  have any  recourse, or  whether that                                                               
become the new norm.                                                                                                            
MR.  HOSTINA   asked  whether  that   was  a  question   for  the                                                               
CHAIR LEDOUX answered yes, because  he is the general counsel for                                                               
the university.                                                                                                                 
MR.  HOSTINA  responded  that,  under  SB  174,  if  someone  was                                                               
brandishing a gun  there may be an issue of  some type of threat,                                                               
assault,  or  intimidation.   There  is  a difference  between  a                                                               
criminal  and university  proceeding,  and  the university  could                                                               
conduct   an   administrative    proceeding   if   someone   were                                                               
intimidating someone with a weapon, he said.                                                                                    
4:52:08 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  noted that  a person can  intimidate without                                                               
having a gun,  and whether currently the university  would act if                                                               
someone was intimidating someone else on the campuses.                                                                          
MR.  HOSTINA replied,  absolutely.   He then  asked Chair  LeDoux                                                               
whether  he could  offer brief  remarks  because there  may be  a                                                               
misapprehension that  the university  is in direct  opposition to                                                               
this bill, which  is not the case.  The  university is seeking an                                                               
amendment   to  this   bill  to   manage  firearms   in  specific                                                               
situations, and it  does not believe the  current language allows                                                               
it to do that effectively.                                                                                                      
CHAIR  LEDOUX agreed,  opened public  testimony, and  advised Mr.                                                               
Hostina that he could testify.                                                                                                  
4:53:26 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOSTINA advised  that the  Board of  Regents is  seeking six                                                               
amendments  to SB  174, the  Senate Education  Standing Committee                                                               
Substitute included  four of the  amendments sought by  the Board                                                               
of  Regents,  and  this  bill   only  includes  two  and  creates                                                               
additional issues.  He pointed  out that the amendments sought by                                                               
the  university  are  grounded   in  existing  state  policy  and                                                               
existing state law.   Those amendments would  apply to situations                                                               
similar to  those situations  in state  law or  under legislative                                                               
policy where  weapons are  prohibited.   For example,  he advised                                                               
that  weapons  are  precluded  under state  law  in  the  Capital                                                               
Building, concealed carry  is precluded for people  under the age                                                               
of  21,  concealed  carry  in   residences  without  the  express                                                               
permission of an adult resident,  loaded firearms in places where                                                               
intoxicating   liquor   is   served,  possession   in   childcare                                                               
facilities, possession in court  system facilities, possession in                                                               
domestic violence and sexual assault  shelters, and possession in                                                               
schools  from   pre-school  through  secondary  school.     These                                                               
existing policies  in law, he  explained, are  constitutional for                                                               
the  reasons Antonin  Gregory Scalia,  Associate  Justice of  the                                                               
Supreme Court of the United  States noted in District of Columbia                                                             
v. Heller, 554  U.S. 570 (2008), which  involved sensitive places                                                             
for government property,  and were based on  sound public policy.                                                               
For  the  same reason,  the  University  of Alaska's  amendments,                                                               
would be  constitutional, they wouldn't criminalize  conduct, are                                                               
narrowly tailored to achieve the  same public safety goals, would                                                               
not exclude weapons from campus,  but the amendments would permit                                                               
the Board of Regents to  manage specific high conflict, high risk                                                               
situations common  on its campuses.   He mentioned there  are two                                                               
problems the  current language  of SB 174  creates, such  that it                                                               
does not adequately  address secure storage of  handguns and does                                                               
not address  storage of  rifles or knives.   It  also technically                                                               
allows  concealed carry  of  rifles,  as well  as  open carry  of                                                               
4:56:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOSTINA referred  to risk  of harm  to self  or others,  and                                                               
noted  previous testimony  offered that  Title 47  takes care  of                                                               
that.   He  said  that Title  47  is a  high  threshold to  meet,                                                               
because  it  involves  committing   someone  involuntarily  to  a                                                               
hospital and  essentially imprisoning  them.  It  happens rarely,                                                               
he said  it is  not a useful  tool for the  university to  use in                                                               
dealing with students and employees, and  it simply is not a good                                                               
way to go  when dealing with a student  population the university                                                               
is trying  to help and  support, or  an employee population.   He                                                               
referred to  the testimony regarding mass  shootings on campuses,                                                               
and noted  that those are  still fairly rare events,  but suicide                                                               
in Alaska is not a rare event.   He explained that suicide is one                                                               
of the leading causes of death  among persons 15-24 years of age,                                                               
and  referred to  the  memorandum he  provided  to the  committee                                                               
earlier.   Suicide  attempts by  firearms are  a more  successful                                                               
means because people  can't change their minds  after the trigger                                                               
has been  pulled.  The university  believes that the time  to act                                                               
is when behavior indicates a risk  of harm to self or others, and                                                               
that Title 47 does not provide  an effective answer.  He said the                                                               
university  would appreciate  an  amendment allowing  it to  deal                                                               
with this as the Senate  Education Standing Committee [Version N]                                                               
4:58:19 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HOSTINA  explained that Amendments  2 and 3,  involve health,                                                               
counseling  services,  or  other   services,  related  to  sexual                                                               
harassment  or violence  located within  the facilities  used for                                                               
adjudication  of  student  and employee  disciplinary  issues  or                                                               
disputes.   The university appreciates  that this bill  allows it                                                               
to establish restricted access areas  to address weapons in these                                                               
areas, but  doing so  will involve  some expense.   He  said, the                                                               
issue  will  have to  be  addressed  to create  those  restricted                                                               
access  areas, and  make the  rules enforceable  as disputes  are                                                               
being adjudicated,  or dealing with  people possibly  involved in                                                               
domestic violence or sexual assault.                                                                                            
4:59:09 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HOSTINA  advised that the  fourth amendment is  regulation in                                                               
student dorms and other shared living  quarters.  To be clear, he                                                               
explained, the  university is not  seeking authority  to regulate                                                               
single family  dwellings or individual apartments,  but rather in                                                               
shared  living  quarters.   He  advised  that the  discussion  is                                                               
concreate   living,  RA's   manage   these   areas,  and   impose                                                               
discipline.   The  dormitories themselves  and shared  apartments                                                               
involve shared  facilities, such  as bathrooms  and lounges.   He                                                               
referred  to allegations  that the  university  has few  students                                                               
under  the age  of  21,  and clarified  that  40  percent of  the                                                               
students in  the dorms are over  21.  Therefore, there  will be a                                                               
mix of people  legally permitted to conceal carry,  and those who                                                               
are not.   He pointed out there are transient  visitors in dorms,                                                               
the  rooms are  sometimes frequently  visited by  other students,                                                               
alcohol is  present, and  allowing concealed  carry in  dorms and                                                               
other  shared housing  results in  concealed handguns  and knives                                                               
being accessible  in a volatile  environment, unlike  any private                                                               
residence.   He  said the  lockbox portion  of the  bill provides                                                               
that the  students provide their  own lockboxes, it is  not clear                                                               
how  that  will  solve  a  problem since  lockboxes  have  to  be                                                               
installed and the bill does not  provide for that.  The bill also                                                               
does not provide technical specifications  for lockboxes, some of                                                               
which are  easily defeated  with a  paperclip or  simply dropping                                                               
them upside  down.  On  the other hand, he  commented, installing                                                               
quality  lockboxes  in every  room  is  a complex  and  expensive                                                               
issue.   He noted  that another  issue in this  area is  that the                                                               
committee  substitute   appears  to  inadvertently   provide  for                                                               
storage of long  guns in university housing, it  doesn't make any                                                               
provision allowing  the university  to require secure  storage of                                                               
long guns  in university  housing.  He  asked that  the committee                                                               
amend this  bill to allow  the university to regulate  weapons in                                                               
shared housing and dormitories.                                                                                                 
5:01:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOSTINA explained  that the  fifth  amendment involves  K-12                                                               
dedicated programs on  campus, it does not  include K-12 students                                                               
occasionally being on campus, visiting  a museum, or happening to                                                               
walk  across  campus.    This   amendment  relates  to  dedicated                                                               
programs,  and  is  a  narrow  amendment  that  only  applies  to                                                               
portions of  the facility used  for K-12 dedicated  programs, and                                                               
only while  the program  is occurring.   He explained  that these                                                               
all involve programs  where the university assumes the  role of a                                                               
parent or guardian,  and does not bear any  resemblance to public                                                               
places where children  just happen to be  present and accompanied                                                               
by their  parents.  He  advised that  the ability to  regulate in                                                               
these areas,  where dedicated K-12  programs are going  on, would                                                               
be consistent with current law on  K-12 property.  It would avoid                                                               
potential accidents,  and the university  would be able  to apply                                                               
the  same standard  of  care for  K-12  as is  the  case on  K-12                                                               
5:03:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOSTINA related  that due  to the  nature of  the university                                                               
premises, it believes that a conceal  carry permit is useful.  He                                                               
point out that of the  eight states requiring a public university                                                               
to allow concealed carry, six require  a permit, and two of those                                                               
require  an enhanced  concealed carry  permit.   He reminded  the                                                               
committee  that  the  university   operates  in  close  quarters,                                                               
classrooms,  laboratories, libraries  and  other communal  space,                                                               
and related  it is appropriate  that students have  some training                                                               
and knowledge  about gun safety  and applicable law.   The permit                                                               
would   also   exclude    certain   individuals   with   criminal                                                               
convictions,   including  class   A  misdemeanors   for  domestic                                                               
violence or stalking, from carrying  concealed weapons on campus.                                                               
He  noted that  the university  asks the  committee to  adopt the                                                               
Senate  Education Standing  Committee  Substitute for  SB 174  in                                                               
place  of the  version passed  by the  full Senate,  and to  also                                                               
include  the   two  additional   amendments  which   provide  for                                                               
regulation for K-12, and a permit.                                                                                              
5:04:20 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  asked whether insurance  will rise                                                               
in any manner if this bill passes.                                                                                              
MR.  HOSTINA   replied  that   insurance  companies   often  give                                                               
insurance company type answers to  that question.  The university                                                               
is self-insured  for the first  $2 million in claims  against the                                                               
university.   The university's excess  carrier indicated  it will                                                               
let the  university know the impact  of this bill when  the final                                                               
bill  is  in place,  and  the  policies  and regulations  of  the                                                               
university are in place, after the bill is passed, he said.                                                                     
5:05:07 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  asked whether  he had  spoken with                                                               
other  universities in  jurisdictions  where similar  legislation                                                               
was  passed,  and  if  so,  how  that  affected  their  insurance                                                               
5:05:29 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOSTINA said  he  was unsure  whether  the university  asked                                                               
about insurance  premiums with  other universities,  although, it                                                               
has asked about  increased costs.  He opined  that the University                                                               
of Idaho  implemented screening procedures  for its  stadiums and                                                               
added  additional police.   He  referred to  the earlier  comment                                                               
that all  three of the  University of Alaska campuses  have armed                                                               
police forces, and  clarified that the Southeast  campus does not                                                               
have a police force.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN asked  why a  person should  be required  to                                                               
have a  permit to  carry on  campus if they  are not  required to                                                               
have a permit walking down the street.                                                                                          
MR.   HOSTINA  responded   that  the   university  has   specific                                                               
responsibilities for its students and  employees on its campuses,                                                               
in   the  event   it  doesn't   respond   when  someone   behaves                                                               
irresponsibly,  liability may  result.   Whereas,  municipalities                                                               
are not  responsible for  certain events  taking place  on public                                                               
5:07:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX  asked  whether  part   of  the  bill  exempts  the                                                               
university from liability.                                                                                                      
MR.  HOSTINA  agreed that  part  of  this  bill does  exempt  the                                                               
university,  except   "lawyers  live  for  finding   ways  around                                                               
provisions like that under certain  civil rights actions."  While                                                               
it  would prevent  simple negligence  type  claims, it  is not  a                                                               
guarantee, he said,                                                                                                             
CHAIR LEDOUX asked whether there  is any guarantee there wouldn't                                                               
be claims brought against a  municipality when someone is walking                                                               
down a street.                                                                                                                  
MR. HOSTINA responded  that in terms of a  shooting incident, the                                                               
municipality  wouldn't   ordinarily  be   subject  to   a  claim.                                                               
Obviously, he  pointed out,  if the police  were called  and they                                                               
failed to  respond, or responded  inappropriately, a  claim could                                                               
arise but not the simple event  itself.  Whereas, he stated, on a                                                               
university  campus  the  university  would likely  be  viewed  as                                                               
somehow responsible for failing to ensure safety.                                                                               
5:08:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HOSTINA,  in response to  Chair LeDoux  as to whether  he was                                                               
aware of  any other  university being  dinged for  that, answered                                                               
the  University  of Alaska  was  dinged  many  years past,  in  a                                                               
negligence action.   He  agreed with Chair  LeDoux that  the bill                                                               
exempts the university from negligence actions.                                                                                 
5:09:12 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  referred to  the fiscal note  describing a                                                               
need for a  consultant to estimate what is necessary  to create a                                                               
secure area,  and asked  reason Mr. Hostina  could not  provide a                                                               
ballpark range.                                                                                                                 
MR.  HOSTINA  explained  that,  at  this  point,  the  university                                                               
believes it best to not attempt a guess.                                                                                        
In terms of  the university trying to be  fiscally restrained, it                                                               
would be  best to  obtain professional advice  on how  to arrange                                                               
sensitive  areas involved  in issues,  such as  investigation and                                                               
disciplinary  actions,  to  minimize the  cost,  potentially,  of                                                               
establishing secure restricted access areas, he explained.                                                                      
5:11:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MAC  COOPER,  Associated  General   Counsel,  Office  of  General                                                               
Counsel, University  of Alaska,  responded that  the university's                                                               
rough  estimate on  the  cost  of a  metal  detector ranges  from                                                               
$5,000 -  $10,000 per  unit -  with wands  costing a  few hundred                                                               
dollars   per   unit,  and   a   full-time   security  guard   at                                                               
approximately  $50,000 -  $80,000 per  year.   The University  of                                                               
Kansas is  addressing the secured  access issue in response  to a                                                               
law effective  in July, 2017.   The University of  Kansas advised                                                               
if it  secured every building in  its system, it would  be beyond                                                               
its  financial means  to do  so.   Mr. Cooper  remarked that  the                                                               
University  of Kansas  is currently  preparing the  same type  of                                                               
study to determine  what buildings and areas  of buildings should                                                               
be secured.                                                                                                                     
5:12:21 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  made a point  of order that  the committee                                                               
is  far afield  from debating  the bill,  and offered  to make  a                                                               
motion to zero out the fiscal note.                                                                                             
CHAIR  LEDOUX advised  the conversation  is allowed  to continue,                                                               
and subsequent  to public testimony,  the fiscal note  debate can                                                               
take place.                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he would  hold his questions until the                                                               
fiscal note debate so the public would have a chance to testify.                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX noted the public  testimony list is fairly long, and                                                               
asked Mr. Cooper whether he would be available tomorrow.                                                                        
MR. COOPER said he would be available tomorrow.                                                                                 
CHAIR  LEDOUX  opened  public  testimony,   and  advised  she  is                                                               
limiting testimony  to two minutes  per person to allow  time for                                                               
all witnesses.                                                                                                                  
5:13:32 PM                                                                                                                    
KEN LANDFIELD related  that he occasionally takes  classes at the                                                               
Katchemak Bay campus  of the Kenai Peninsula  College, and shared                                                               
the Constitution of  the State of Alaska, Article  VII Section 3,                                                               
which read:                                                                                                                     
     The University of  Alaska shall be governed  by a board                                                                    
     of  regents.  The regents  shall  be  appointed by  the                                                                    
     governor, subject to confirmation  by a majority of the                                                                    
     members of the legislature  in joint session. The board                                                                    
     shall,  in accordance  with law,  formulate policy  and                                                                    
     appoint the  president of the  university. He  shall be                                                                    
     the executive officer of the board.                                                                                        
MR.  LANDFIELD said  that beyond  the  Board of  Regents and  the                                                               
president  of the  University of  Alaska,  there are  chancellors                                                               
responsible  for  their  respective   campuses,  not  to  mention                                                               
various  branches   with  their  own  directors   and  respective                                                               
administrations.     He   asked  whether   these  officials   and                                                               
administrations  are  not  the  proper  avenue  for  establishing                                                               
university policy in general, and  in particular.  While there is                                                               
a  state policy  allowing concealed  carry statewide,  he related                                                               
that  weapons are  not  allowed  in public  places,  such as  the                                                               
legislature  and  the  court  system.   He  suggested  that  this                                                               
legislation is  a clear  case of  state government  overreach and                                                               
questioned why,  in the  face of a  crippling budget  crisis, the                                                               
legislature  is  spending precious  time  on  an expensive,  non-                                                               
urgent,  non-issue, outside  of its  constitutional jurisdiction.                                                               
He asked that the bill not be enacted.                                                                                          
5:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
The committee took an at-ease from 5:16 p.m. to 5:28 p.m.                                                                       
5:28:54 PM                                                                                                                    
ERIN HOOD  said he is  testifying on  his own behalf,  teaches at                                                               
the University of Alaska Southeast  (UAS), and opined that one of                                                               
the main  justifications for this  bill is righting some  sort of                                                               
constitutional wrong.  Article I,  Section 19 of the Constitution                                                               
of the State of Alaska was  amended in 1994 to confer broader gun                                                               
rights, he said,  and then read the instruction  to voters, "This                                                               
amendment  'quote' would  not overturn  or invalidate  state laws                                                               
restricting   access  of   possession  of   firearms  in   school                                                               
building."   Therefore,  people  voting in  1994  were told  this                                                               
amendment  was  still  in accordance  with  banning  firearms  in                                                               
school buildings.   He said he would read from  an Alaska Supreme                                                               
Court  decision, as  follows: "In  limited respects  as, 'quote,'                                                               
the  Board   of  Regents  is,   'quote,'  co-equal   rather  than                                                               
subordinate  to that  of  the executive  or  legislative arms  of                                                               
government."   That language "in the  constitution," implies that                                                               
there should be deference to the  Board of Regents with regard to                                                               
policies  within  the  University   of  Alaska's  campuses.    He                                                               
explained that the  University of Alaska, Board  of Regents voted                                                               
nine to two  against this bill, and in working  at the university                                                               
and talking  with students, staff,  and administrators,  the nine                                                               
to two vote  is representative of the amount of  support the bill                                                               
has on  campus, with approximately  80 percent against  the bill,                                                               
he remarked.  He pointed to  the idea of government overreach and                                                               
related that the  people of King Cove are  angry and disrespected                                                               
because  they can't  build  a  road to  the  airport because  the                                                               
federal  government is  ignoring  their  particular concerns  and                                                               
overruling  them.    The   university  campus  is  overwhelmingly                                                               
against this  bill and its  concerns are  being ignored.   From a                                                               
practical  standpoint,  the focus  has  been  almost entirely  on                                                               
school  shootings, 30,000  shootings in  the United  States every                                                               
year,   of  those,   two-thirds  are   suicides,  one-third   are                                                               
homicides, and  less than one percent  are justifiable homicides.                                                               
Therefore, there  is no reason to  think that by putting  guns on                                                               
campus  will   doing  anything   except  increase   suicides  and                                                               
homicides, he related.                                                                                                          
5:32:06 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked the subject he teaches at UAS.                                                                      
MR. HOOD responded, Environmental Science.                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  referred to his statement  that the students                                                               
on campus are 80 percent ...                                                                                                    
MR.  HOOD interjected  that that  is his  personal opinion  after                                                               
speaking with  student and  other staff  about guns  and hunting,                                                               
and opined that  the support is almost  negligible between staff,                                                               
the administration, and students.                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked whether  his opinion is primarily based                                                               
upon students in the environmental science classes.                                                                             
MR. HOOD advised  that he teaches all majors  in his introductory                                                               
education classes.                                                                                                              
CHAIR LEDOUX referred  to his statement that he has  no reason to                                                               
believe this bill  will do anything other  than increase suicides                                                               
and homicides, and  asked whether he was familiar  with the other                                                               
schools that have  now initiated the guns on campus  system.  She                                                               
opined there has been no uptick in homicides or suicides.                                                                       
5:33:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HOOD  answered that only 8  states out of [50]  allow guns on                                                               
school campuses,  and school shootings and  justifiable homicides                                                               
are  a tiny  fraction of  the total  number of  shootings in  the                                                               
United States.  He remarked that  it is more important to ask why                                                               
42 states do  not want guns in their school,  and to consider, in                                                               
this  budget crisis,  whether the  legislature  wants to  attract                                                               
students from  out-of-state, and  to consider parents  being told                                                               
guns are in the dormitories where people are drinking.                                                                          
5:34:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SALLY  RUE  said  she  is  a long-time  resident  of  Alaska,  is                                                               
speaking on  her own  behalf, and urged  the committee  to oppose                                                               
this bill.  She offered that she  grew up in a hunting family, is                                                               
a gun owner, has enjoyed hunting  and passing on the tradition to                                                               
her  children,  and she  is  not  against  guns.   Although,  she                                                               
pointed out, she is against  the legislature forcing the Board of                                                               
Regents to  allow guns almost  everywhere on campus.   Currently,                                                               
the university  allows weapons on  campus in a  reasonable manner                                                               
that  is  not  in  conflict  with the  Second  Amendment  of  the                                                               
Constitution  of  the United  States.    Restricting firearms  in                                                               
government  buildings  and schools  has  been  recognized by  the                                                               
courts, and  the Alaska legislature, as  presumptively lawful and                                                               
outside the  scope of constitutional  protections.  The  right to                                                               
bear arms is not  the same as the right to carry  arms all of the                                                               
time and  anywhere.   This bill  is trying  to address  a problem                                                               
that does not  exist, she opined.  Alaska's  university system is                                                               
first and foremost  a place of learning  where students, faculty,                                                               
and staff need  to feel safe to freely discuss  ideas and explore                                                               
differences.  She described it as  a place where young people are                                                               
growing into adults,  where they experience the ups  and downs of                                                               
adolescence   and  young   adulthood.      This  often   includes                                                               
experimenting  with   alcohol  and  drugs,   navigating  romantic                                                               
relationships and  breakups, and sometimes dealing  with a mental                                                               
health crisis.   The  students live in  dorms and  close quarters                                                               
where friction can occur, and  mixing firearms into this volatile                                                               
environment does nothing to increase  safety, and does everything                                                               
to make it inevitable there  will be avoidable tragedies.  Alaska                                                               
has  the  highest rates  of  suicide,  gun violence,  and  sexual                                                               
assault in  the nation, and there  is no evidence this  bill will                                                               
do  anything to  lessen  that  and, it  could  likely worsen  it.                                                               
During this  time of  Alaska's budget  crisis, the  university is                                                               
facing huge cuts to its  budget, cutting academic programs and up                                                               
to  hundreds  of  faculty  positions   and,  she  remarked,  this                                                               
legislation would  divert even more resources  from academics and                                                               
student  support.    Alaska  and   the  Alaska  legislature  face                                                               
momentous  choices this  session that  will determine  the future                                                               
health and welfare  of the entire state, she said.   This bill is                                                               
not needed, potentially harmful to  Alaska's young people and the                                                               
university  system, and  does  nothing to  focus  on its  biggest                                                               
issues.  She urged the committee to oppose SB 174.                                                                              
5:37:59 PM                                                                                                                    
FRANK RUE  said he lives  in Juneau,  and is a  long-time Alaskan                                                               
hunter and gun owner.   He related that he is  aware of a suicide                                                               
that took place  because the gun was left unlocked,  and once the                                                               
decision  is made  to pull  the  trigger it  can't be  un-pulled.                                                               
Allowing  concealed  weapons on  campus  will  not make  campuses                                                               
safer, but rather more depressed  suicidal students will have the                                                               
means to kill themselves, and  firearms will be readily available                                                               
at  that moment  of no  return.   He commented  that rather  than                                                               
students being hungover  and seeking help from  a counselor there                                                               
will be  more dead  students.   The same is  true, he  noted, for                                                               
those  moments when  a student  is  angry about  being dumped  by                                                               
their girlfriend or given a bad  grade by a professor.  He opined                                                               
that  rather   than  an  incident   of  assault   or  harassment,                                                               
counseling,  and/or   legal  proceedings,  there  will   be  dead                                                               
girlfriends and  faculty.  The  same runs true for  someone drunk                                                               
on alcohol and  a fight.  He pointed out  that the most promising                                                               
students and  faculty are the  people likely to go  elsewhere due                                                               
to  the  presence  of  concealed weapons  on  the  University  of                                                               
Alaska's  campuses.    He  advised that  the  same  is  happening                                                               
elsewhere in the  country where weapons on  campus legislation is                                                               
passed.  For example, he pointed  out that the dean of the highly                                                               
touted  University of  Texas Architecture  School  left Texas  to                                                               
become the Dean  of the University of  Pennsylvania Design School                                                               
in  large  part,  because  the newly  passed  Texas  law  allowed                                                               
concealed guns on campus.  He  pointed to the sponsor's remark to                                                               
people with  the same  above decisions, "Don't  let the  door hit                                                               
you  on the  ass on  your way  out the  door," or  words to  that                                                               
effect, he  said.  He  related that  most people, who  care about                                                               
the University  of Alaska system,  disagree with  that sentiment,                                                               
and agree that Alaska keeping  its best students and faculty will                                                               
improve  the  experience and  education  for  all students.    He                                                               
related that President Mark Hamilton  remarked, as follows:  "The                                                               
10 percent free  tuition to 10 percent  greatest highest students                                                               
was the one  thing that made the -- increased  the academic rigor                                                               
of the university  because now you had the very  best students in                                                               
Alaska."   Mr. Rue reiterated  that, that one thing  alone raised                                                               
the  academic standards  of the  university, and  he opined  that                                                               
this bill will drive some of those students away.                                                                               
5:40:48 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   CLAMAN  referred   to  his   mention  of   other                                                               
universities enacting  these laws, and asked  whether those state                                                               
schools  saw  a  change  after they  added  the  concealed  carry                                                               
provisions in terms of students applying to go to those schools.                                                                
MR RUE answered that he was not aware of any.                                                                                   
5:41:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX referred  to his  concerns about  dead girlfriends,                                                               
dead boyfriends,  suicides, and  so forth,  and pointed  out that                                                               
many students live off campus.   The university doesn't make it a                                                               
condition of attending  UAA, UAF, UAS, that no  students are able                                                               
to live off campus  and have guns.  She advised  she does not see                                                               
the distinction between living on campus and living off campus.                                                                 
MR. RUE  opined that situations  can evolve quickly.   He offered                                                               
the  scenario of  people  drinking in  dorms,  suddenly they  are                                                               
pushing each  other, and  a fight  breaks out.   Students  are in                                                               
close  proximity to  each  other in  a dorm,  which  is far  more                                                               
volatile than  someone living in  a house five miles  off campus,                                                               
he opined.                                                                                                                      
5:42:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CALLIE  CONERTON,  Student  Government President,  University  of                                                               
Alaska Southeast, advised  she is a student at  the University of                                                               
Alaska  Southeast   (UAS),  and  serves  as   student  government                                                               
president,  and as  the statewide  coalition of  student leader's                                                               
vice-chair.   She commented that  there are multiple  reasons she                                                               
opposes SB  174, campus is no  place for guns.   Contrary to what                                                               
the  committee  has  been  told, there  are  fiscal  impacts  and                                                               
Alaskan students cannot  afford it.  Major  stakeholders from the                                                               
university,  including  its  president,   the  Board  of  Regents                                                               
through  the  school  faculty have  opposed  this  dangerous  and                                                               
expensive legislation.   A campus  is no place for  guns because,                                                               
especially  in   dorms,  guns  and  alcohol   leads  to  impaired                                                               
judgement about whether to shoot a  gun, and impairs the aim when                                                               
firing.   A  Columbia  University study  found  that one-half  of                                                               
United  States   students  binge   drink  or  abuse   illegal  or                                                               
prescription drugs.  She said there  is also an elevated risk for                                                               
a firearm suicide  as it is a one-shot deal  and suicide attempts                                                               
with  guns  are  more  successful than  other  suicide  attempts.                                                               
Alaska has  huge problems with Seasonal  Affective Disorder (SAD)                                                               
which  also leads  to depression  in students,  people age  18-20                                                               
represent 4.4 percent  of the total United  States population but                                                               
those  people commit  17  percent  of all  gun  homicides.   Some                                                               
students may be responsible gun  owners; however, there are often                                                               
situations where  they are in  close proximity with  students who                                                               
do not have  the knowledge or responsibility of  gun handling and                                                               
think of  guns as  a toy.   Two  weeks after  the State  of Idaho                                                               
passed a bill  allowing guns on campus, during  class a professor                                                               
literally  shot  himself  in  the   foot  accidentally,  and  she                                                               
questioned whether  Alaska wants  that in  its lecture  halls and                                                               
classrooms.   She pointed  out that students  will end  up paying                                                               
for guns  on campus,  and with  the current  budget crunch  it is                                                               
irresponsible to pass a bill that  will cost students money.  She                                                               
asked the  committee to vote  no on SB  174, and asked  whether a                                                               
responsible  gun  owner  at  a  party will  lockup  the  gun,  or                                                               
continue playing beer-pong.                                                                                                     
5:45:57 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER  McCLUNG, Instructor,  University  of Alaska  Anchorage,                                                               
said she is  an instructor at the University  of Alaska Anchorage                                                               
(UAA), and  is opposed to the  bill, because one of  the premises                                                               
on  which the  bill was  written is  false.   The FBI  released a                                                               
study of  active shooter incidents  in the United  States between                                                               
2000-2013,  including  shootings   in  schools,  movie  theaters,                                                               
business districts,  commercial areas, gun free  zones, and areas                                                               
allowing concealed weapons.   The study found that  less than one                                                               
percent of  active shooter  events were  resolved by  an ordinary                                                               
citizen  with  a  firearm.     She  continued  that  out  of  160                                                               
incidents, over a 14 year period,  only one was stopped by a good                                                               
guy  with  a  gun.    In contrast,  that  study  stated  that  21                                                               
incidents  ended by  unarmed civilians.   Therefore,  good people                                                               
without  guns, actually  had more  successful  endings in  active                                                               
shooter incidents than  good guys with guns.  On  the other hand,                                                               
she  commented, Alaska  has  a suicide  problem  and its  college                                                               
students are not  exempt.  During the last two  years, there have                                                               
been 18  suicide attempts at UAA  alone, and likely some  of them                                                               
would have  completed if  they had access  to a  firearm, because                                                               
suicide attempts  with a  firearm are almost  always fatal.   She                                                               
opined that by increasing student  access to firearms, especially                                                               
in the dorms, there is a  real risk more students will be enabled                                                               
to take their own  lives, and that risk is not  worth a less than                                                               
one  percent chance  of  a good  guy  with a  gun  ending a  mass                                                               
shooting that may, or may not, ever occur.                                                                                      
5:48:17 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBIN SMITH said  she opposes the bill.  She  offered that if she                                                               
knew someone in the classroom had  a gun, it would impact how she                                                               
acted  and that  she would  hesitate  to approach  the person  or                                                               
engage  in a  conversation.   Particularly,  she  related, not  a                                                               
divisive conversation,  and it  would have  a chilling  impact on                                                               
their   dialogue.     Unfortunately,  she   remarked,  guns   are                                                               
everywhere  and   society  has  not   found  a  way   to  prevent                                                               
individuals with  mental illness, violent histories,  or criminal                                                               
histories, from  accessing guns.   She  indicated that  this bill                                                               
buys into  the myth that  a good guy with  a gun could  resolve a                                                               
shooting  incident  earlier  than   the  police  response.    She                                                               
referred to an FBI report,  released in 2014, which counters that                                                               
myth, and  written by  a special  operations military  person who                                                               
had  recently retired.   She  related  that he  said, "There  are                                                               
groups of  individuals, special operators  both military  and law                                                               
enforcement, who  train for  years to be  good at  close quarters                                                               
shooting.   Shooting with discernment,  keeping your  head clear,                                                               
and making snap decisions before  you pull the trigger, all while                                                               
being shot  at by  the enemy.   After  dedicating their  lives to                                                               
being good  operators in those extreme  circumstances, even those                                                               
professionals make  mistakes."  In  some cases, she said,  a good                                                               
guy with  a gun can  neutralize the  threat and help  save lives,                                                               
but it  doesn't happen often.   She  related that people  need to                                                               
know it is  a fallacy to believe that the  everyday gun owner can                                                               
be expected  to make  all of  the right  choices in  a dangerous,                                                               
fast  moving situation  like a  mass shooting  with high  powered                                                               
weapons.  She referred to the  FBI report offered by the previous                                                               
witness that  the [shootings] took  place at schools  because the                                                               
shooters were associated  with the schools, and  not because they                                                               
were  gun-free zones.    She  remarked that  in  many cases  [the                                                               
shooter] did not  know that they were gun-free zones.   She asked                                                               
that the committee oppose this bill.                                                                                            
5:51:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROLINE  STORM, Alaska  PTA Advocacy  Committee, described  this                                                               
bill as,  effectively, overreaching  from the legislature  to the                                                               
Board of Regents.   She opposes this bill, she  said, because the                                                               
Board  of Regents  believes this  legislation is  unsafe for  its                                                               
campuses, and the  legislature does not have the right  to make a                                                               
decision  for the  people who  know what  life on  campus is  all                                                               
5:52:34 PM                                                                                                                    
PATRICK RACE advised he lives  in Juneau and described himself as                                                               
"another  soft  target"  testifying  against this  bill.    While                                                               
listening to the  sponsor's testimony, he said he  was amazed the                                                               
sponsor  had  no  relatable statistics  and  relied  entirely  on                                                               
anecdotes  about  "dudes  with  crowbars."   He  said  he  has  a                                                               
computer science degree from UAF,  and is the third generation in                                                               
his  family to  graduate  from Alaska's  university  system.   He                                                               
described his  freshman roommate as an  unstable, unhealthy young                                                               
man who  pulled a knife  on him  in the heat  of the moment.   He                                                               
noted that he was unsure whether  he would be testifying today if                                                               
the  roommate had  instead pulled  a handgun.   Mr.  Race related                                                               
that he  is concerned about  what is  being created here  with no                                                               
upside  to  it,  except  the possibility  of  increased  campaign                                                               
funding.  This  bill begs the question of  whether the University                                                               
of Alaska is  violating the Constitution of the  State of Alaska,                                                               
and he  reminded the committee  that this  is a question  for the                                                               
courts.   It shouldn't  be settled through  a patchwork  quilt of                                                               
legislation, one  bill for the  university, another bill  for the                                                               
Capitol Building, and another bill later  on down the road for K-                                                               
12, and he asked that the committee discard this bill.                                                                          
5:54:09 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  Mr.  Race  to describe  the                                                               
incident during his freshman year.                                                                                              
MR. RACE  responded that his  roommate fancied himself as  a "mob                                                               
boss" kind  of guy,  he watched  a lot of  "Good Fellas"  type of                                                               
entertainment,  listened to  Frank  Sinatra, and  had knives  and                                                               
probably guns, but not in their  room.  They got into an argument                                                               
over  a Nintendo  game,  and as  young  men are  wont  to do,  it                                                               
escalated into  shoving.   Eventually the  roommate pulled  out a                                                               
knife and  threatened to slit  his throat while he  was sleeping,                                                               
he described.  Mr. Race said  he started down the hallway and due                                                               
to the  noise, many people were  in their doorways.   He then ran                                                               
past  the crowd,  the crowd  closed in  behind him  [blocking the                                                               
roommate],  and  he  moved  into   a  different  room  after  the                                                               
incident.  The incident he  described is not uncommon, he pointed                                                               
out, there  are many fights  and violence  on campus that  is not                                                               
reported, there is  a lot of drinking, events happen,  there is a                                                               
lot  of   miscommunication,  and   introducing  guns   into  this                                                               
environment will not help anyone.   If this bill is passed out of                                                               
committee and someone  kills someone, the committee  will have to                                                               
live with  that.  He  offered the  scenario of someone  coming at                                                               
him with  a knife, and  "I pull out a  gun, now I've  killed him.                                                               
How does that change my life?"                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  responded that  Mr.  Race's  life would  be                                                               
changed by being alive.                                                                                                         
MR. RACE agreed that he is  alive, and fortunately has not had to                                                               
murder anyone.                                                                                                                  
5:56:31 PM                                                                                                                    
BRIAN JUDY,  Senior State  Lobbyist, National  Rifle Association,                                                               
State of California  Assemblyman, said he has a lot  to unpack in                                                               
two  minutes,  and  he  is  the Alaska  liaison  for  the  Alaska                                                               
National Rifle  Association speaking  in support of  SB 174.   He                                                               
said that self-defense is a  fundamental right and under existing                                                               
law there  is an arbitrary  line, on one side  of that line  is a                                                               
law abiding  adult, age 21  years and  older, that can  choose to                                                               
carry a firearm for self-protection on  one side of the line, but                                                               
they can't  on the other.   He explained that this  bill is about                                                               
not  removing that  line, but  shrinking  the line  tremendously,                                                               
shrinking  the gun-free  zone that  is currently  in effect.   He                                                               
referred to the  question asking the university what  it is doing                                                               
now,  and he  said  the university  is not  doing  anything.   He                                                               
continued  that if  it is  not doing  anything now,  then nothing                                                               
will change in  allowing law abiding adults to  choose to provide                                                               
a  means of  self-protection.   He said  it will  not create  the                                                               
tremendous,  disastrous,  catastrophic, situation  the  committee                                                               
has heard.                                                                                                                      
MR. JUDY said that this issue  comes down to emotion versus facts                                                               
and,  he described  "the  emotion is  pretty  astounding in  this                                                               
committee  room and  I  appreciate your  indulgence."   Gun  free                                                               
zones have proven  to be a public policy failure,  and every mass                                                               
killing has happened  in a so-called gun free zone.   He remarked                                                               
that  criminals  do  not  obey  gun free  zones,  they  are  only                                                               
respected by law  abiding citizens.  He said that  the reality of                                                               
designating an  area as  a gun  free zone,  doesn't create  a gun                                                               
free zone,  it creates  an area  where only  the victims  will be                                                               
5:58:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  JUDY referred  to  the eight  states  discussed in  previous                                                               
testimony, and  said there is  not a problem.   This may,  or may                                                               
not, make campuses safer, but the  evidence is that it won't make                                                               
campuses more dangerous.   He noted that the  committee has heard                                                               
dire predictions  of catastrophe,  and said  it didn't  happen in                                                               
1993 when Alaska passed the  concealed weapon permit law, or when                                                               
Alaska went  permit-less carry, or  in 2013 when Alaska  passed a                                                               
"no  duty  to  retreat"  bill.   He  commented  that  these  same                                                               
arguments are heard  each time a bill passes in  other states and                                                               
the  campuses  are  not  becoming dangerous  areas.    There  was                                                               
testimony regarding  Alaska's tremendous fiscal problems,  and he                                                               
commented  that  if there  are  security  issues associated  with                                                               
irresponsible  people and  their firearms,  that's a  problem now                                                               
and   the  money   needs   to  be   spent,   under  the   current                                                               
circumstances,  because  this  bill  is not  going  to  make  the                                                               
situation any  worse.  The states  that have chosen to  pass laws                                                               
and allow law abiding adults  to carry a means of self-protection                                                               
haven't experienced any problems.   Mr. Judy suggested a negative                                                               
fiscal   note  associated   with  this   bill  because   it  will                                                               
dramatically shrink the area the  university will have to enforce                                                               
a gun free policy, and he urged no amendments to SB 174.                                                                        
6:00:56 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  asked  whether  he  was  saying  that  by                                                               
dramatically  shrinking  the  authority   of  the  university  to                                                               
control  a  campus,  it  will save  the  university  millions  of                                                               
MR. JUDY disagreed, and he said he  did not say it would save the                                                               
university millions of dollars.                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN argued that Mr.  Judy said it should have a                                                               
negative fiscal  note, and he asked  for an estimate of  how much                                                               
the committee  should think  about in his  view of  the estimated                                                               
negative fiscal note.                                                                                                           
MR.  JUDY  replied "I  don't  know,  a  dollar, five  dollars,  a                                                               
thousand  dollars?"    He  said   in  the  State  of  Idaho,  the                                                               
observation  by the  legislature  was that  the  fiscal note  was                                                               
unfounded and bloated.  He opined  that the fiscal note should be                                                               
zero, and the bill should be passed out.                                                                                        
6:02:43 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVEN SAMUELSON  said he  supports the bill  due to  the reasons                                                               
previously  stated, and  he  could  see how  having  guns on  the                                                               
university  campuses could  be contentious.   Although,  with the                                                               
fiscal  notes,  this bill  pertains  to  people who  are  already                                                               
responsible gun owners who want to  know that they can have their                                                               
concealed  weapon  on a  campus  with  adults.   Alaska,  through                                                               
history, has  held strong  on access to  guns due  to subsistence                                                               
rights and  personal use  rights, and he  described this  as just                                                               
another level.   He advised that he briefly attended  UAA and was                                                               
more afraid  of the  moose keeping  him in  his car  than someone                                                               
potentially having  a gun on campus.   He then mentioned  that he                                                               
had been  in the areas of  Moses Lake, Washington, and  New Town,                                                               
Connecticut,  at the  time of  the  shootings and  they were  eye                                                               
openers.    He opined  that  Governor  Frank Murkowski  moved  to                                                               
permit-less concealed carry and nothing came of it.                                                                             
6:05:08 PM                                                                                                                    
ALYSE GALVIN advised  she has children who have  taken classes at                                                               
the University of Alaska Anchorage,  (UAA), and described them as                                                               
bright  children younger  than 18  years of  age.   She expressed                                                               
that she  would not  allow her  children on  campus if  it allows                                                               
guns  so freely,  and opined  that many  parents agree  with her.                                                               
She  asked whether  the legislature  was, currently,  in a  place                                                               
where it  listens to people  from out-of-state, and  allows those                                                               
people  to tell  Alaskans what  to  do, or  will the  legislature                                                               
listen to  the people of  Alaska.  She  said that, up  until now,                                                               
the state  has been good at  dictating its own future  and she is                                                               
hopeful  the  state  is  not  moving  to a  new  place.    It  is                                                               
important, she  pointed out, to  recognize that  children younger                                                               
than 18 years of age are  frequently on campus taking classes and                                                               
in dorms.   She remarked  that having a gun  in a lockbox  is not                                                               
the same  as a gun  in a safe.   Alaskans believe they  should be                                                               
able to  hunt and do  the things  important to them  as Alaskans,                                                               
and the  Alaskan hunters she knows  use a gun safe.   She pointed                                                               
out that  the entire  amount of  time spent  on this  bill rather                                                               
than the  state's big problem is  a concern, and she  opposes the                                                               
6:07:50 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  commented  that the  legislature  addresses                                                               
many issues and frequently experts from out-of-state testify.                                                                   
MS. GALVIN  stated she appreciates  that experts  would sometimes                                                               
testify, but that is different from paid lobbyists.                                                                             
CHAIR LEDOUX  related that the  committee offers  the opportunity                                                               
for people from  all over to testify, and noted  the mail she has                                                               
received from Alaskan is tilted  toward favoring this bill rather                                                               
than opposing this bill.                                                                                                        
6:08:58 PM                                                                                                                    
BUTCH MOORE  advised that in  2014 there  were 145 gun  deaths in                                                               
Alaska, and  none of those  deaths occurred on  college campuses.                                                               
He  said  his daughter,  Bree,  was  murdered,  in 2014,  by  her                                                               
boyfriend, she was  a 20-year old UAA student,  and her boyfriend                                                               
was 21 years old.   Within the majority of the  145 gun deaths in                                                               
2014, 79 percent  were suicide, and the majority of  all of those                                                               
were ages  18-26.   The sponsor  of this bill  does not  have any                                                               
statistics that Alaska has a problem.   Mr. Moore said within his                                                               
research of  mass shootings in Alaska,  he could not find  a mass                                                               
shooting in  Alaska until  he researched back  to 1984,  at Manly                                                               
Hot Springs.  Alaska does not  have a problem with guns on campus                                                               
and this bill  is not necessary.  He advised  that Bree Moore was                                                               
proficient  in the  use of  all weapons,  was an  active sporting                                                               
shooter, and  he supports the country's  Second Amendment rights.                                                               
If this bill  passes, the young adult who turns  21 years old can                                                               
walk into  Fred Meyer and buy  a handgun having had  no training.                                                               
He stressed that guns for people  with no education on the use of                                                               
guns is not needed in  Alaska's communities which is a community-                                                               
wide safety  concern.   He stressed  this bill  is not  needed to                                                               
protect Alaskan's constitutional rights, and  to let the bill die                                                               
in committee  to protect the  kids.   He continued that  a person                                                               
has  a greater  chance of  being struck  by lightning  than being                                                               
shot on a college campus in the United States.                                                                                  
6:12:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE NEWBERN,  Assistant Director  of Public  Relations, Buckeyes                                                               
for Concealed  Carry, National Rifle  Association, said he  is in                                                               
support  of the  campus  carry bill,  then  referred to  previous                                                               
testimony advising this  bill will not make  college campuses any                                                               
safer, and responded  that it could not be said  that SB 174 will                                                               
make campuses  any less safe.   He related that shootings  in the                                                               
street  did not  happen when  Alaska passed  the concealed  carry                                                               
bill in 1993,  and the same for  the State of Ohio in  2004.  The                                                               
State of  Ohio recently  "got restaurant  carry" and  people were                                                               
worried  about blood  pouring out  of the  bars where  alcohol is                                                               
served,  and that  hasn't happened.    He mentioned  a Texas  A&M                                                               
University  study found  no  increase in  crime  with respect  to                                                               
campus concealed  carry.  He  said Texas  just passed a  law, and                                                               
other universities are coming up  with policy to deal with campus                                                               
conceal carry.   He advised  the working group at  the University                                                               
of Texas,  Austin found no  instance of violence with  respect to                                                               
campus  conceal  carry.    He   then  referred  to  the  comments                                                               
regarding the  ability to recruit students  and/or faculty and/or                                                               
staff.   Admittedly,  he offered,  there  have been  a couple  of                                                               
faculty members  in Texas  who left,  but the  administrator that                                                               
came to Texas from Utah when  it enacted its conceal carry law in                                                               
2006, Michael Young, is currently  the President of the Texas A&M                                                               
University who said that initially  in Utah there was some uproar                                                               
when they  got campus concealed  carry in 2006, but  in 2008-2011                                                               
the  University of  Utah  saw record  enrollment.   The  concerns                                                               
regarding not being  able to recruit students,  faculty, or staff                                                               
doesn't play out, and neither do the predictions of violence.                                                                   
6:15:14 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM  BOUTIN  advised he  is  speaking  for  himself and  that  he                                                               
supports the  bill because it  is good legislation for  the world                                                               
that Alaska  finds itself  in today.   Gun  free zones  appear to                                                               
encourage  crime, and  encourage  nuts cases  causing mayhem,  he                                                               
6:15:56 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER  GLENN, Volunteer,  Alaska Chapter,  Moms Demand  Action                                                               
for Gun  Sense in  America, advised that  Moms Demand  Action for                                                               
Gun  Sense  in America  is  a  grass-roots movement  of  American                                                               
parents in  Alaska, and across  the country, fighting  for public                                                               
safety measures respecting the Second  Amendment and reducing gun                                                               
violence.   She  advised that  she  and her  husband own  several                                                               
guns, but  she is opposed  to this bill.   In the event  the bill                                                               
becomes  law, Alaska  would  join  the ranks  of  only two  other                                                               
states that currently force colleges  to allow all permit holders                                                               
to carry  guns on  campus.   She described  the bill  as assuming                                                               
that  anyone  carrying on  campuses  will  be a  responsible  gun                                                               
owner; however,  it is  known that  not all  of those  carrying a                                                               
concealed  weapon, or  have a  gun, are  responsible gun  owners.                                                               
She  asked how  a student,  rooming with  another student,  would                                                               
know how responsible their roommate  is, and whose responsibility                                                               
it becomes when  that gun owner takes it upon  themselves to step                                                               
into a dispute  using their gun.  She opined  that SB 174 assumes                                                               
many things.   Amy Thompson wrote  an article for the  Journal of                                                             
American  College  Health,  entitled "Reducing  firearms  related                                                             
violence  on  college  campuses-police  chiefs'  perceptions  and                                                               
practices,"  which states  that 89  percent of  university police                                                               
chiefs oppose policies that allow  guns on campuses.  The student                                                               
community also  echoes this sentiment  wherein, "79  percent have                                                               
said  that they  would not  feel  safe if  faculty, students,  or                                                               
visitors, were allowed  to bring concealed guns on  campus."  She                                                               
said she attended UAF and graduated  at UAA, and had there been a                                                               
law allowing  guns on these  campuses, she would  have considered                                                               
attending  another  university or  going  to  an online  program.                                                               
While working at  the Municipality of Anchorage,  at a recreation                                                               
center, a shooting occurred.   Thankfully no one was injured, but                                                               
her experience  tells her that  arming citizens to  protect other                                                               
citizens is  not an  answer to  this problem,  she related.   She                                                               
opined that  this bill  goes against  common sense  when everyone                                                               
knows  often there  is a  mix of  alcohol, drug  use, and  highly                                                               
stressful situations  on campus and  dormitory rooms.   She urged                                                               
the committee to vote no.                                                                                                       
6:19:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE  COONS said  he  is speaking  as  a member  of  the NRA  and                                                               
requested  extra time  because  the "anti-gun  crowd" gets  extra                                                               
time.  He  related there has been testimony  that First Amendment                                                               
rights,  freedom  of  speech,  will  be  infringed  upon  because                                                               
teachers  and students  will be  afraid to  discuss controversial                                                               
subjects  with  students due  to  fear  they  may be  carrying  a                                                               
concealed firearm.   He said he  does not agree, and  argued that                                                               
the university  has free  speech zones, or  the only  place views                                                               
considered   non-politically  correct,   based  on   the  liberal                                                               
intolerance by faculty  and student body, are allowed.   He said,                                                               
the assumption is  that no person, unless they  are liberals, can                                                               
contain  themselves in  debating the  issues of  the day  and, he                                                               
said  that is  an  affront to  him and  any  American who  values                                                               
freedom of  speech.  Alcohol  and drugs are another  red herring,                                                               
and  he advised  it's  against the  law to  use  a firearm  while                                                               
intoxicated.   In the event he  were a student, he  said he would                                                               
take grave  offense to the  attack that  students are a  bunch of                                                               
drunks and illegal drug users  that can't contain themselves.  He                                                               
described  mental  health  as  a huge  red  herring  that  paints                                                               
students as not  being able to handle stress, and  he takes grave                                                               
offense for  the vast  majority of  students who  are responsible                                                               
and can  control themselves.   Continued talking points  are just                                                               
that, all based  on the far left anti-gun  organizations lies and                                                               
innuendos,  and the  left has  a long  history of  continuing the                                                               
lies to make the  truth, he said.  In this case,  as well as many                                                               
others, the truth  is the truth and change is  not.  He continued                                                               
that  gun locks  are  safes,  they are  biometric  and rapid  tap                                                               
codes, secure and paperclips do not  gain access.  Gun free zones                                                               
have deaths  of 12 or  greater on  the average, and  guns allowed                                                               
zones have two.  He said  that Virginia Tech paid out $11 million                                                               
in punitive  damages, and  not (indisc.)  that anywhere  close in                                                               
6:22:26 PM                                                                                                                    
DANIEL BELGRIZE, University of Alaska  Anchorage, advised he is a                                                               
veteran,  a senior  in  the  justice program  at  UAA, an  active                                                               
member in  numerous student clubs,  and is speaking on  behalf of                                                               
over 50 members  of UAA's Greek Life Organizations,  and over 100                                                               
veterans  who  have  expressed  support   for  this  bill.    The                                                               
Constitution  of the  State of  Alaska guarantees  the individual                                                               
right to keep and bear arms  will not be denied or infringed upon                                                               
by the  state or  political subdivisions of  the state.   Article                                                               
VII, Section  3, states that  the Board of Regents  may formulate                                                               
policy for  the university  and, he  noted, the  qualification of                                                               
"in accordance  with the law"  is vital,  and there is  no higher                                                               
law in Alaska than its constitution.                                                                                            
MR. BELGRIZE  referred to  the inquiry  regarding defense  of gun                                                               
use,  and said  the  Center for  Disease  Control (CDC)  recently                                                               
stated that  defense of gun  use is (indisc.) with  its estimates                                                               
ranging from 500,000 to 3  million occurrences annually, compared                                                               
to less than 500,000 violent  crimes involving firearms.  The CDC                                                               
has also  consistently found lower  injury rates among  gun using                                                               
victims  compared   with  victims  who  have   used  other  self-                                                               
protective strategies.  He advised  there is a budgetary interest                                                               
in this bill and that is  to guarantee and protect the state from                                                               
potential lawsuits  for the violation of  rights guaranteed under                                                               
the constitution.                                                                                                               
6:24:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked whether Mr.  Belgrize is the  Daniel Belgrize                                                               
she knows.                                                                                                                      
MR. BELGRIZE agreed.                                                                                                            
6:24:35 PM                                                                                                                    
RYAN  SHERWIN-ALAKAYAK, Student,  University of  Alaska Anchorage                                                               
(UAA), said  he is a life-long  Alaskan, student at UAA,  and has                                                               
devoted his life  to serving his community.  He  pointed out that                                                               
the  testimony  heard  from  the opposition  tends  to  focus  on                                                               
firearm issues,  while the  real focus of  the bill  supports the                                                               
Constitution  of the  State of  Alaska.   Alaskans should  uphold                                                               
those values and  rights.  He noted that  firearm violence exists                                                               
today, and the policies being  made do not necessarily affect the                                                               
people  committing crimes  with  firearms -  the policies  affect                                                               
people  who do  follow the  laws.   A  person desiring  to use  a                                                               
firearm on  campus will do so  regardless of the law,  but folks,                                                               
like himself, who  do carry firearms will tend to  veer away from                                                               
carrying  on  campus.    He   said  he  supports  Mr.  Belgrize's                                                               
testimony and supports SB 174.                                                                                                  
6:27:11 PM                                                                                                                    
HANS  RODVIK said  he  is  a UAA  alumni,  and  in 2014  assisted                                                               
Senator Coghill in spearheading the  efforts, of Senate Bill 176,                                                               
to  correct the  wrong  of  the University  of  Alaska, Board  of                                                               
Regents'  policy which  is an  unconstitutional unlawful  policy.                                                               
He related that Senate  Bill 176 did not pass in  2014, and he is                                                               
testifying in  full support of  SB 174.   He described this  as a                                                               
fundamental right of  self-defense of which has been  echoed by a                                                               
couple  of  different  folks  today.   He  said  there  has  been                                                               
fearmongering  testimony tonight  on  behalf of  folks who  think                                                               
that law  abiding adults over  the age of 21,  currently carrying                                                               
all around Alaska,  are going to become  unlawful criminals, drug                                                               
users and  alcoholics when they  cross that line on  a university                                                               
campus.  He opined that  many alumni, veterans, and students take                                                               
offense to  that [idea], and  asked whether the Board  of Regents                                                               
is telling veterans they don't have the right to carry for self-                                                                
defense,  even though  they served  this country.   He  closed by                                                               
saying  he  fully supports  the  bill  and  hopes it  passes  out                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN thanked Mr. Rodvik for his service.                                                                         
6:29:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CEEZAR MARTINSON, Student, University  of Alaska Anchorage (UAA),                                                               
advised he  is a  student at the  University of  Alaska Anchorage                                                               
(UAA), and  is in support  of this  legislation.  He  referred to                                                               
the Constitution of  the State of Alaska, Article  I, Section 19,                                                               
which read:                                                                                                                     
     A  well-regulated   militia  being  necessary   to  the                                                                    
     security of  a free state,  the right of the  people to                                                                    
     keep  and  bear  arms  shall   not  be  infringed.  The                                                                    
     individual right  to keep  and bear  arms shall  not be                                                                    
     denied  or  infringed  by  the  State  or  a  political                                                                    
     subdivision of the State. [Amended 1994]                                                                                   
MR.  MARTINSON advised  that it  is clear  the UAA  policy is  in                                                               
direct violation of the Constitution  of the State of Alaska, and                                                               
illegal given the  fact it does not have  the statutory authority                                                               
to   restrict  the   ability  to   concealed  carry   on  campus.                                                               
Furthermore, he  suggested, the  hyperbole testimony  is complete                                                               
nonsense with  regard to  the fact that  eight other  states, and                                                               
150 private universities, allow concealed  carry on campus.  Mass                                                               
violence has not been seen, he  related, nor has issues of inter-                                                               
student or inter-faculty  violence.  The reality is  that this is                                                               
common sense  legislation bringing the university  back under the                                                               
rule of law.  He said  he supports the legislation, and asked the                                                               
committee to protect his Second Amendment rights.                                                                               
6:31:33 PM                                                                                                                    
KELSI PULCZINMS,  Student, University  of Alaska  Anchorage, said                                                               
she is a student at UAA, and is  speaking on her own behalf.  She                                                               
voiced her  support of SB 174,  and advised that she  is an adult                                                               
and  that  just because  she  is  a student,  her  constitutional                                                               
rights should not  be infringed by the Board of  Regents who have                                                               
no  constitutional authority  to  do  so.   She  referred to  the                                                               
testimony  of  a mother  concerned  about  her underage  children                                                               
being on  campus with  firearms present, and  stated that  she is                                                               
sure her children are also  present in Alaska's communities where                                                               
adults responsibly and  legally carry every day,  with no issues.                                                               
She described it  as a fearmongering argument and  stated that if                                                               
the  mother is  uncomfortable  with her  underage children  being                                                               
around firearms, her  children should not be in  the community at                                                               
all  because  people carry  every  day.    She related  that  she                                                               
strongly supports  this bill and  encouraged the committee  to do                                                               
so, as well.                                                                                                                    
6:33:21 PM                                                                                                                    
LAURA MIKO said she is testifying  in opposition to this bill and                                                               
on her own behalf.   She said she is a  UAF alumni, UAF employee,                                                               
and has  worked both in  student housing  and on the  main campus                                                               
where students  are in crisis  mode.   She pointed out  that when                                                               
people go  to college  there are many  different things  going on                                                               
with  them, good  and  bad.   Sometimes,  especially with  mental                                                               
health  issues,  things happen  where  guns  should not  be,  she                                                               
pointed  out.    She  related  that on  a  populated  campus,  if                                                               
something should  happen, there  is a whole  system in  place for                                                               
lock  down,  and SB  174  is  telling  people to,  basically,  be                                                               
vigilantes.   In  those  instances, with  many  people trying  to                                                               
handle the situation, it will  confuse police and law enforcement                                                               
who is  actually the  offending person,  which can  contribute to                                                               
more  cross-fire  and more  injuries.  She  appreciates that  she                                                               
lives in  a state where  guns can be  carried in public,  but she                                                               
does not think  a college campus for education  is an appropriate                                                               
place.   Especially,  she  said, because  there  may be  spiteful                                                               
debates and  conversations in classrooms  with people  "who might                                                               
be packin."                                                                                                                     
CHAIR LEDOUX,  after ascertaining that  no one further  wished to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony.                                                                                               
[SB 174 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 174 - Sponsor Statement.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Sectional Analysis ver G.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - CS ver G (FIN).PDF HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Summary of Changes ver N to ver G.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - CS ver N (EDC).PDF HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Version H (original).PDF HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Fiscal Note-SFIN-UA-4-04-16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - Alaska Constitution Article I, Section 19.PDF HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - AS 29.35.145 Municipal Regulation of Firearms and Knives.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - Dept. of Public Safety - Concealed Weapons Info.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - Dept. of Public Safety - Firearm Ownership, Possession Info.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - LAA Legal Memo - Immunity from civil liability (Feb. 17, 2016).pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - NCSL Guns on Campus Overview (February 12, 2016).pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - News Articles.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - UA Board of Regents Concealed Carry Position Paper (Feb. 12, 2016).pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - UA General Counsel Memo - Immunity Provision (Feb. 23, 2016).pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - UA Population by Age, Academic Organization.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - UAF, UAS, UAA Campus Crime Statistics.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Letters of Opposition.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Letters of Support.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 180 - Sponsor Statement ver I.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Sectional Analysis ver I.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - CS Version I (JUD).pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Summary of Changes - Version W to Version I.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Version W.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Fiscal Note - DHSS-FLSW-2-20-16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - ADN Commentary 2-3-16 Walker-Carmody.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - ADN Commentary 2-13-16 Demer.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Letter of Support AIC.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Letter of Support AK Childrens Trust.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Letter of Support AYFN.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Letter of Support Beacon Hill.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Letter of Support Brian Schaeffer.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 180 - Supporting Documents - Safe Families One-Pager.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 180
SB 174 - Supporting Documents - UA Regent's Policy 02.09 Public Safety.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
HB 334 - Version H.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 334
HB 334 - Letter of Opposition - AWARE 04.09.16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 334
HB 334 - Emails of Opposition - Received by 04.12.16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 334
HB 200 - Letter of Support - Melanie Fredericks.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 200
HB 200 - Letter of Support - Kerry Gray.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 200
SB 174 - Opposing Documents - UA Analysis of CSSB174(FIN) 04.12.16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Fiscal Note-UA-SYSBRA-4-11-16.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
SB 174
HB 200 - Letter of Support - Traci McGarry, Kawerak Inc..pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 200
HB 200 - Letter of Support - Cheryl Offt, Association of Village Council Presidents.pdf HJUD 4/12/2016 1:00:00 PM
HB 200