Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

02/28/2018 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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Audio Topic
01:02:40 PM Start
01:03:11 PM HB75
03:12:22 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 75 GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
             HB  75-GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:03:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 75, "An  Act relating to gun  violence protective                                                               
orders; relating  to the crime  of violating a  protective order;                                                               
relating to  a central registry  for protective  orders; relating                                                               
to  the  powers of  district  judges  and magistrates;  requiring                                                               
physicians,   psychologists,  psychological   associates,  social                                                               
workers,   marital   and    family   therapists,   and   licensed                                                               
professional  counselors  to  report   annually  threats  of  gun                                                               
violence;  and amending  Rules 4  and 65,  Alaska Rules  of Civil                                                               
Procedure, and Rule 9, Alaska Rules of Administration."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:03:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GERAN  TARR,  Alaska State  Legislature,  advised                                                               
that  the  bill creates  "gun  violence  protective orders,"  and                                                               
offered that  she sponsored this  legislation due to some  of the                                                               
instances  that have  occurred in  the  district she  represents.                                                               
She advised that Leroy Lawrence was  killed last year on his 17th                                                               
birthday by  a stray bullet,  and another young  person, Precious                                                               
Alex, was killed in her sleep by  a stray bullet.  These are some                                                               
of  the public  safety challenges  that have  taken place  in the                                                               
neighborhoods she represents,  and she has long  been looking for                                                               
solutions for  gun violence prevention.   Most people  agree that                                                               
the vast  majority of gun  owners are  lawful gun owners  and are                                                               
not the  individuals who cause  concerns to society  about owning                                                               
guns.  Society  is worried about two categories  of people, those                                                               
folks who  are criminals and are  involved in gangs or  drugs and                                                               
so forth, and those folks  experiencing mental illness and may be                                                               
a danger to  self or others.   She explained that HB  75 does not                                                               
really  get at  the criminals  because  she is  still looking  at                                                               
avenues to address that piece  of the problem.  This legislation,                                                               
she explained, is a policy  alternative that references the group                                                               
of  individuals who  are experiencing  mental  illness and  could                                                               
commit a crime or be a danger to self or others.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  offered that  other states  have implemented                                                               
these gun violence protective orders.   For example, the State of                                                               
Connecticut  implemented this  policy and  it has  been shown  to                                                               
reduce the  number of  suicides, which is  of interest  to Alaska                                                               
due  to its  high rates  of suicide.   On  a personal  level, she                                                               
related  that her  brother committed  suicide, and  for two-years                                                               
prior  to his  death, he  was  in serious  crisis.   He was  very                                                               
unhappy  about  his  interactions  with law  enforcement  and  he                                                               
talked about  committing violent acts.   As a family  member, she                                                               
said, his state of mind  was incredibly difficult and because she                                                               
did not have any good tools,  she stayed with him to convince him                                                               
that that  was not  the right  thing to  do.   The only  sense of                                                               
relief she has is  that in the end he only took  his own life and                                                               
no  one else's  life.    From that  perspective,  she related,  a                                                               
policy  alternative such  as  HB 75  is  about empowering  family                                                               
members to  be a  part of  the solution.   Oftentimes, it  is the                                                               
family members who see the  deterioration of a family member over                                                               
a period  of time  because they are  closest to  that individual.                                                               
Family members are looking for  a tool and this legislation could                                                               
be an important prevention tool.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:07:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR turned  to the  handout titled,  "House Bill                                                               
75:   Gun  Violence   Protective  Orders,"   aka  "Extreme   Risk                                                               
Protection  Orders" aka  "Red  Flag Laws."    She explained  that                                                               
these protective  orders are temporary  in nature and  limited in                                                               
scope.    This  legislation  focuses   on  those  people  causing                                                               
concern, and it is consistent  with maintaining a person's Second                                                               
Amendment  rights  as  this  bill   is  a  temporary  removal  of                                                               
firearms.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:08:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR turned  to  the handout  and explained  that                                                               
essentially three types of protections  orders have been created.                                                               
She turned to  the standard Gun Violence  Protection Order (GVPO)                                                               
and  explained  as  follows:     this  protective  order  can  be                                                               
petitioned by an immediate family  member, which includes spouse,                                                               
child, step-child,  parent, step-parent, or a  peace officer; the                                                               
evidence standard  is clear and  convincing evidence, which  is a                                                               
high standard to  meet in order to prove this  person is a danger                                                               
to self or  others; the duration of the protective  order is six-                                                               
months,  which  is the  longest  period  of  time for  the  three                                                               
options;  the  family member  or  peace  officer must  reasonably                                                               
believe  the person  is a  danger to  self or  others; and,  that                                                               
individual  can petition  the court  for  a hearing  and ask  for                                                               
reconsideration or modifications to that protective order.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:09:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR turned  to the  "Ex Parte"  protective order                                                               
and advised as follows:  the  immediate family member and a peace                                                               
officer  can  petition for  the  protective  order; the  evidence                                                               
standard  is the  preponderance of  evidence; it  expires 20-days                                                               
after issuance  unless it was  dissolved earlier by the  court at                                                               
the request of  either the petitioner or the  respondent; and the                                                               
individual poses a significant danger to themselves or others.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:10:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  turned to  the "Emergency"  protective order                                                               
and advised  as follows:  only a peace  officer can  petition the                                                               
court  for a  protective  order;  it is  a  preponderance of  the                                                               
evidence  standard;  and,  it  expires  72-hours  after  issuance                                                               
unless dissolved  by the court  earlier, but only at  the request                                                               
of the  petitioner - the  respondent does  not have an  option to                                                               
request a shortening of the duration of that protective order.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR explained as follows:  the bill is limited in                                                               
scope, both in the people this  legislation would apply and it is                                                               
only immediate family  members or a peace officer  can access it;                                                               
the  high  standard of  clear  and  convincing evidence  and  the                                                               
preponderance  of  evidence;  it  is  temporary  in  nature;  and                                                               
individuals  do have  access  to petition  the  court to  request                                                               
changes, with the exception of the emergency protective order.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:11:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  pointed to  the  language  below the  table                                                               
located on the handout, and paraphrased as follows:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     SURRENDER  OF FIREARMS:  The respondent  must surrender                                                                    
     to  a  local  law  enforcement  agency  or  sell  to  a                                                                    
     firearms dealer  all firearms  and ammunition  that the                                                                    
     person possesses, owns, or  has within the respondent's                                                                    
     custody or  control within 24  hours of receipt  of the                                                                    
     protective order.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     RETURN OF FIREARMS: When  the protective order expires,                                                                    
     the law  enforcement agency  shall return  the firearms                                                                    
     or  ammunition  to  the   respondent.  Prior  to  being                                                                    
     returned, any  firearms or ammunition surrendered  to a                                                                    
     law  enforcement agency  shall be  retained by  the law                                                                    
     enforcement  agency until  the  expiration  of the  gun                                                                    
     violence protective order.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     TEMPORARY   HEALTH   REPORTING:   The   bill   requires                                                                    
     reporting of serious threats conveyed  to a health care                                                                    
     provider  during the  year of  gun  violence against  a                                                                    
     reasonably identifiable  victim. The reporting  may not                                                                    
     include any  personally identifiable  information. This                                                                    
     would result in one report in 2019 and this section is                                                                     
     repealed February 1, 2020.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  explained that the expectation  is that soon                                                               
after the  protective order is  issued, the person  would respond                                                               
and  turn  over their  firearms.    She  pointed to  the  section                                                               
regarding  the  return of  firearms  and  advised that  when  the                                                               
protective  order  expires,  "the law  enforcement  agency  shall                                                               
return  the  firearms or  ammunition  to  the respondent."    The                                                               
intention  of  the bill  is  that  the  person, once  the  crisis                                                               
situation  passed,  would  lawfully   have  possession  of  their                                                               
firearms again.  She related that  this bill is aimed at a crisis                                                               
situation  to give  a family  member  a tool  that could  protect                                                               
themselves or others  because they believe the  person will cause                                                               
someone harm.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[CHAIR  CLAMAN  listed  the   individuals  online  available  for                                                               
questions.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:13:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP  stated that this discussion  is long overdue                                                               
in many ways.  He referred  to [AS 18.65.815(a)], Sec. 6, page 3,                                                               
[lines  12-14],  wherein  an immediate  family  member  or  peace                                                               
officer  must  present their  belief  that  the respondent  is  a                                                               
danger to  self or  others, and noted  that "an  immediate family                                                               
member" is defined under [Sec. 7,  page 8, lines 4-5], which read                                                               
as follows:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          In AS 18.65.815-18.65.840 "immediate family                                                                           
      member" means a spouse, child, stepchild, parent, or                                                                      
     stepparent.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP suggested  that  the committee  may want  to                                                               
incorporate more of  the domestic violence section  because it is                                                               
more   inclusive  of   long   term  spousal-type   relationships,                                                               
boyfriends, or  girlfriends, who  may be in  a great  position to                                                               
assess the mental frame of mind of the person.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR offered her  appreciation for that suggestion                                                               
and she  welcomes that  option as  a possibility.   In  the other                                                               
states,  there have  been more  broad definitions  as to  who can                                                               
petition the court and she wanted  to start as small as possible.                                                               
Although, it would be appropriate  through conversation to add to                                                               
that  but  to  make  sure   it  is  something  that  people  feel                                                               
comfortable cannot  be abused.   That is an important  issue, she                                                               
described,  that  there is  not  an  opportunity for  someone  to                                                               
misuse this bill  as it is actually limited  to crisis situations                                                               
for safety reasons.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:15:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP   said  that   he  agrees   with  everything                                                               
Representative Tarr pointed out as  to the language being used in                                                               
an  abusive  manner.   He  noted  that  because the  language  is                                                               
focused  on the  firearm and  taking it  away based  on something                                                               
someone said or their actions, "this  tool has to be removed from                                                               
their life."   He  suggested possibly  requiring a  mental health                                                               
competency  hearing  as something  that  would  further show  the                                                               
justice system  that the goal is  to do more than  just take away                                                               
their ability to  kill self or others, but to  also help them get                                                               
better as  quickly as  possible and find  the true  mental health                                                               
issue.   He asked whether  Representative Tarr would  accept some                                                               
type  of a  mental health  competency risk  analysis included  in                                                               
this  language.   He  pointed  out that  the  bill  takes away  a                                                               
significant  liberty,  and  the   committee  does  not  want  the                                                               
respondent  to go  next  door  and "continue  to  carry out  what                                                               
they're going to do."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  responded that she welcomes  that suggestion                                                               
and working  with Representative Kopp  because she would  like to                                                               
look into the  particulars of how that might work.   She noted an                                                               
earlier   conversation   regarding    the   state's   involuntary                                                               
commitment statutes  and determining  where this  language blends                                                               
or meets up.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:17:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  noted  that   the  goal  is  decreasing                                                               
violence and domestic  violence, wherein weapons, such  as a car,                                                               
can be  used for harm.   She agreed  that the committee  does not                                                               
want something that  is intended for good, such as  this bill, to                                                               
be misused by an angry girlfriend  or boyfriend "just to get guns                                                               
away from  somebody."   She referred to  [AS 18.65.820],  page 4,                                                               
lines 8-9, which read as follows:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
        (a)  An immediate family member of a respondent                                                                         
     or a peace officer who reasonably believes ...                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  requested the definition  of "reasonably                                                               
believes."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  answered that she included  this language in                                                               
the table in  order to compare those and determine  whether it is                                                               
the appropriate language.  The  "reasonably believes" language in                                                               
this section pares  up with the preponderance of  evidence, as to                                                               
how to understand  what standard would have to be  met so that it                                                               
could not be misused.   The preponderance of evidence is actually                                                               
more than 50  percent likely, there has to be  some behaviors and                                                               
other things that  would lead someone to believe  that the person                                                               
is a danger.   She referred to [AS 19.65.820],  page 4, lines 11-                                                               
13, which read as follows:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          (a) ...  that the  respondent poses  a significant                                                                    
     danger  of  injury to  self  or  others by  possessing,                                                                    
     owning, purchasing,  or receiving a firearm,  that less                                                                    
     restrictive  alternatives  have  been  tried  and  were                                                                    
     ineffective, ...                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  explained that  in addition to  meeting that                                                               
preponderance of  evidence standard,  a petitioner would  have to                                                               
show that  they have, in fact,  tried other things and  they were                                                               
unsuccessful and; therefore, are asking  the court for what would                                                               
be considered a more restrictive  measure by preventing them from                                                               
being in possession of firearms for that period of time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:20:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD said she would  like to echo the concerns                                                               
of Representative Kopp  in that she does not want  to put a judge                                                               
who  may  or  may  not  be qualified  to  perform  mental  health                                                               
evaluations  in that  situation.   An  evaluation  from a  mental                                                               
health   professional   is   worthy,    and   it   sounded   like                                                               
Representative Tarr was supportive of that idea, she said.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TARR  reiterated   that  that   is  a   welcomed                                                               
suggestion and she will look into how it would work.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:20:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  noted that  in  the  event there  is  a                                                               
mental health  issue and  someone is angry,  they will  use other                                                               
tools  besides  firearms,  such  as  a car  or  a  knife.    This                                                               
legislation  must be  used  globally and  not  solely focused  on                                                               
firearms,  and  she asked  whether  the  mental health  issue  is                                                               
addressed in this legislation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR replied  that there is not  a requirement for                                                               
a mental  health competency  hearing at  this time;  however, she                                                               
reiterated  that   she  has   had  conversations   regarding  the                                                               
involuntary  commitment  statutes.   The  intention  would be  to                                                               
determine how  these two issues  meet or  whether there is  a gap                                                               
because  it  is  an  opportunity to  determine  someone's  mental                                                               
health status and get them  into a treatment program or something                                                               
similar.   She  said she  certainly does  not want  to miss  that                                                               
opportunity  from this  particular policy  in determining  how it                                                               
might work  and whether  there is  a way to  blend that  into the                                                               
procedure here and maintain a person's rights and due process.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:21:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX referred  to the  document titled,  "House                                                               
Bill 75: Gun  Violence Protective Orders" and noted  that the gun                                                               
violence  protective  order  (GVPO)  read that  the  standard  is                                                               
"clear  and  convincing  evidence,"   except  under  the  heading                                                               
"Danger to Self  or Others" is the  phrase "reasonably believes."                                                               
Reasonably believes, she commented  is probably the preponderance                                                               
of evidence,  and preponderance  of evidence  is 50  percent plus                                                               
one   fraction;   therefore,   the   language   appears   to   be                                                               
inconsistent.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR referred  to  [Sec.  6, AS  18.65.815(a)(b),                                                               
page  3, lines  12-26]  and answered  that  this language  reads:                                                               
"reasonably  believes poses  a significant  danger and  immediate                                                               
danger" and she explained that the  language is there in order to                                                               
have this  conversation, but  in that  particular section  of the                                                               
bill, the  clear and  convincing evidence  standard must  be met.                                                               
Subsection (a)  [page 3, lines 12-18]  is with regard to  who can                                                               
petition the court  if they reasonably believe  the respondent is                                                               
a danger  to self or others.   Subsection (b) [page  3, lines 19-                                                               
26] discusses how  the court would issue the order  and the court                                                               
would  use  the clear  and  convincing  evidence standard.    She                                                               
reiterated that  it is a  bit broader in  terms of who  can apply                                                               
and they  would reasonably believe  the person was a  danger, but                                                               
in order  for the court  to issue  the protective order  it would                                                               
have to use the clear and convincing evidence standard.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  advised Representative  LeDoux that  the proceeding                                                               
under HB 75 is a  contested proceeding and the person petitioning                                                               
to  have the  firearms taken  away  and the  respondent would  be                                                               
entitled to appear at that proceeding.   The court must find that                                                               
the  petitioner's belief  that the  respondent may  harm self  or                                                               
others is reasonable.   After the respondent  testifies that they                                                               
are not  a danger and  it is  unreasonable to believe  their guns                                                               
should  be  taken away,  the  court  must  rule under  clear  and                                                               
convincing  evidence.    Whereas,  he  explained,  the  ex  parte                                                               
protective  order by  its very  definition  is ex  party and  the                                                               
respondent is  not present for  that hearing.   The big  issue is                                                               
not  whether   the  belief  was   reasonable,  but   whether  the                                                               
petitioner has  shown by clear  and convincing evidence  that the                                                               
person is a risk, he said.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:25:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX referred  to the  respondent meeting  this                                                               
standard  of proof  and asked  why they  would not  be in  API or                                                               
another private facility for that amount of time.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR answered  that one  of the  challenges is  a                                                               
capacity issue where  there is not the capacity in  some of these                                                               
facilities to  take these individuals,  so it  is not as  easy as                                                               
simply  showing  up  and  advising   that  someone  needs  to  be                                                               
involuntarily committed.   Currently,  she explained, due  to the                                                               
lack of  capacity at API,  a lot of  these individuals end  up in                                                               
emergency  rooms.   Oftentimes  they have  to  wait several  days                                                               
before  they are  assessed because  the emergency  room does  not                                                               
have the appropriate  staff to perform the assessment  to lead to                                                               
the  involuntary  commitment.    This conversation  needs  to  be                                                               
overlapped with  what is  going on in  health care  because there                                                               
are certainly gaps there, which is  why she wants to review where                                                               
this legislation ends and where  it meets up with the involuntary                                                               
commitment  statute, she  offered.   For example,  she said,  the                                                               
emergency  protective order  is an  immediate danger  and perhaps                                                               
that person  should appropriately  be transitioned into  a secure                                                               
facility where they cannot harm self  or others.  Under the GVPO,                                                               
this  person may  be someone  who is  normally medicated  but has                                                               
gone off their  medications and it may not be  appropriate to put                                                               
that person into  a secure facility.  This situation  may be more                                                               
of a  matter of  getting that person  into an  appropriate health                                                               
care provider  to re-evaluate their  situation and get  them back                                                               
on medication that will stabilize  whatever mental health problem                                                               
they may be  experiencing.  There is  a bit of grey  area in what                                                               
kind of mental health challenges  some people may be experiencing                                                               
as  to whether  they  would  best be  served  with their  primary                                                               
health care provider versus someone  who is more clearly a danger                                                               
to self or others, she said.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:27:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  offered concern that the  language self or                                                               
others may get out of control  because someone could say that the                                                               
clinically depressed  person may be a  danger to self but  not to                                                               
others.  She asked whether the  committee was willing to take the                                                               
right to bear arms out of  the hands of everyone who is diagnosed                                                               
with clinical depression.   She noted her belief that  if that is                                                               
the  result, it  would be  an incentive  for people  to not  seek                                                               
psychiatric help for depression.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  answered that  in  the  case of  these  gun                                                               
violence  protective   orders,  the   petitioners  can   only  be                                                               
immediate  family  members or  peace  officers.   Therefore,  the                                                               
privilege of privacy with health  care providers would remain the                                                               
same, and the  health care provider is not an  individual who can                                                               
petition  the  court  to  try  to have  firearms  removed.    She                                                               
stressed  that  it is  not  her  intention  to interfere  with  a                                                               
person's  relationship with  their health  care provider,  and in                                                               
the event of that concern, it should be looked at carefully.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:30:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  offered that  he was  intrigued by                                                               
the involuntary commitment standards and  how that relates to the                                                               
standards  set  forth in  this  legislation  for a  gun  violence                                                               
protective order.  He referred  to AS 18.65.820(a), page 4, lines                                                               
12-13 [previously  typed] and asked  what those  less restrictive                                                               
alternatives would be in reality.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR noted  that in the conversations  she has had                                                               
so far, it centered mostly  around voluntarily giving up firearms                                                               
and  someone not  wanting to  voluntarily  participate, with  the                                                               
alternative  of  petitioning the  court  for  a legal  option  to                                                               
remove the firearms.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   CLAMAN  added   a  personal   note  in   connection  with                                                               
Representative  LeDoux question  about  the intersection  between                                                               
depression and mental  illness.  Years ago, he  offered, a friend                                                               
of  his was  an active  gun enthusiast  and hunter  and he  spent                                                               
Sunday  morning  with  the  gentleman trying  to  get  better  at                                                               
hitting the  target with a  44-magnum pistol.  Chair  Claman said                                                               
that his friend's  wife died several years ago  and the gentleman                                                               
was severely depressed.  He  did not need to be institutionalized                                                               
but he  was severely depressed,  and there were no  court orders.                                                               
A  group   of  his  friends   recognized  the  severity   of  the                                                               
gentleman's  depression and  due to  these tough  times for  him,                                                               
they would like  him to agree to remove the  guns from his house,                                                               
and he agreed.   That, he said,  is an example of  someone who is                                                               
not  suitable for  commitment, but  it was  not suitable  for the                                                               
gentleman to have access to the guns.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:33:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN opened public testimony on HB 75.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:33:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOCTOR  AMY  BARNHORST,  Psychiatrist  Professor,  University  of                                                               
California Davis  Medical Center, advised  that she works  in the                                                               
Psychiatric Crisis  Unit in Sacramento  and she is the  portal to                                                               
the involuntary  mental health  care system,  which is  often the                                                               
pathway  for firearm  prohibitions based  on mental  illness, and                                                               
often  for  treatment  of  people   deemed  to  be  dangerous  to                                                               
themselves  or  others.    Oftentimes,   when  there  is  a  mass                                                               
shooting, as  in the  recent past,  there is a  big focus  on the                                                               
mental  health system  as a  mechanism  for preventing  violence.                                                               
She  referred  to  the  question   as  to  how  a  mental  health                                                               
evaluation might  play into this  gun violence  protection order,                                                               
and she explained  that the mental health system has  a hard time                                                               
helping a  lot of the people  who are at risk  for mass shootings                                                               
and mass violence, mostly because  the majority of these shooters                                                               
do not actually  have a treatable mental illness and  they do not                                                               
qualify   for  involuntary   admission   due  to   dangerousness.                                                               
Oftentimes,  she  explained,  these  people are  brought  to  the                                                               
emergency  mental  health care  system  by  law enforcement  with                                                               
their  knowledge there  is no  pathway for  them in  the criminal                                                               
justice system until they have committed  a crime.  In truth, she                                                               
related, there is not much the system  can do for them either.  A                                                               
gun  violence protection  order  fills that  gap  in between  the                                                               
criminal system and  the mental health system to  at least remove                                                               
gun  access  from  those  potentially   dangerous  people.    She                                                               
commented that it is nice to  think that the mental health system                                                               
would be  able to  do something  about them, but  it has  a hard-                                                               
enough time treating  the people they do have  with severe mental                                                               
illness.  Dr. Barnhorst pointed  out that most community violence                                                               
is not  committed due to mental  illness, it is committed  due to                                                               
the  other  factors at  play  with  those  people who  do  commit                                                               
violence.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BARNHORST  offered  her awareness  of  Alaska's  quite  high                                                               
suicide rate, particularly by firearms,  and related that most of                                                               
the five states with a similar  type of court order found that an                                                               
order was  used more  in cases  of suicide than  in its  cases of                                                               
violence.   Truth  be told,  she  said, the  majority of  firearm                                                               
deaths in  the United States  are actually suicides with  a ratio                                                               
of approximately two-to-one to homicides.   The reality is that a                                                               
gun  violence  protective order  can  be  an effective  tool  for                                                               
people who  do not meet  the criteria for  involuntary commitment                                                               
but  are still  at  risk for  suicide.   Friends  and family  can                                                               
identify [the  changes in  a person's  behavior] and  involve the                                                               
legal  system and  separate  these people  from  the most  lethal                                                               
method  of suicide  that exists  and  possibly save  lives.   The                                                               
question  of  a mental  health  evaluation  as  part of  the  gun                                                               
violence protection order  is not necessary because  it would not                                                               
offer  another pathway  that does  not  already currently  exist.                                                               
The gun violence protection order is  a tool to be used for those                                                               
people who do  not fit neatly within the mental  health system or                                                               
the  criminal   justice  pathway   and  those  people   will  not                                                               
necessarily   benefit  from   acute  or   crisis  mental   health                                                               
treatment.   These  people would  not be  prohibited from  owning                                                               
firearms  via  the  traditional  mental  health  pathways.    She                                                               
stressed that this a great opportunity to fill a void there.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:36:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANICE SWIDERSKI,  Moms Demand Action  for Gun Sense  in America,                                                               
advised that she  has lived in Alaska for  22-years and currently                                                               
lives in  Anchorage.   She related  that she is  a member  of the                                                               
national  grassroots organization,  "Moms Demand  Action for  Gun                                                               
Sense in America,"  and its members are respectful  of the Second                                                               
Amendment right to  keep and bear arms, and it  is also united in                                                               
the  belief that  common-sense regulations  go hand-in-hand  with                                                               
that  Second Amendment  right.   Everyone deserves  to live  in a                                                               
country where  their right to  life, liberty, and the  pursuit of                                                               
happiness  is protected,  and this  legislation is  one of  those                                                               
common-sense  solutions  that can  help  protect  the safety  and                                                               
security of  all Alaskans without  infringing on  anyone's Second                                                               
Amendment rights.   On a personal level, she advised  that she is                                                               
supportive  of how  HB  75  would help  reduce  the incidents  of                                                               
suicide by gun in this state.   Many years ago, her father's only                                                               
sibling shot  and killed himself  with a gun and  she experienced                                                               
the trauma  that a tragic  suicide can  inflict on a  family and,                                                               
unfortunately,  far too  many  Alaskan  families experience  this                                                               
trauma with  its suicide rate  among the highest in  the country.                                                               
As Representative Tarr mentioned,  loved ones and law enforcement                                                               
are often the first to see the  warning signs when a person is in                                                               
crisis, and  this legislation  would give them  a way  to protect                                                               
that person  from making an  impulsive deadly decision.   Studies                                                               
have  shown that  90 percent  of the  people who  attempt suicide                                                               
with a  gun will  die, and  in total contract  to that  study, 90                                                               
percent of the people who  attempt suicide by another method will                                                               
survive and the  majority of those survivors do  not make another                                                               
attempt.   Gun users are not  more suicidal or have  more intent,                                                               
they simply have access to  a particularly deadly method of self-                                                               
harm  in a  time of  crisis.   These  tragedies are  preventable.                                                               
Research  found  that  variations  in suicide  rates  across  the                                                               
states are  due primarily to  the variations in  the availability                                                               
of  firearms,  not  by  differences in  mental  health,  and  the                                                               
availability of  firearms is clear  in this state where  "so many                                                               
of us are gun  owners."  She said that she  strongly urges all of                                                               
the House  of Representatives  members to support  HB 75  to save                                                               
lives  and help  ensure  that  no family  has  to experience  the                                                               
tragedy her family experienced.  If  her family had had access to                                                               
a tool  such as  HB 75,  her dear  uncle, a  World War  II combat                                                               
veteran,  might have  lived  out his  life to  the  fullest in  a                                                               
manner he truly deserved, she related.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:40:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SAM TRIVETTE,  Juneau Suicide Prevention Coalition,  advised that                                                               
he  and his  wife  have  been involved  with  the Juneau  Suicide                                                               
Prevention  Coalition for  9-plus  years due  to the  unfortunate                                                               
loss of  their son  to suicide  10.5 years  ago, by  firearm, and                                                               
since  that  time,  he  and  his  wife  have  received  extensive                                                               
training involving these issues.   The State of New Hampshire has                                                               
done an excellent job of not  taking away a person's right to own                                                               
firearms, and  instead helped  them keep  their guns  safer which                                                               
resulted in a much-reduced suicide rate,  and HB 75 is a rational                                                               
approach.   Having worked as  a peace officer and  in corrections                                                               
in Alaska for  30-some years before he retired, he  said he knows                                                               
a tremendous amount about domestic  violence and all of the other                                                               
kinds of violence  with guns.  He  noted that he had  guns in his                                                               
house his entire  life, up until his son died,  and stressed that                                                               
trying  to force  people to  undergo a  mental health  evaluation                                                               
before considering  the possibility  of removing  a gun  does not                                                               
work.  Mental health clinicians  are swamped and, he explained, a                                                               
person won't see  a clinician for some period of  time and if one                                                               
becomes  available, many  times the  evidence is  not there  that                                                               
will  allow the  clinician to  perform  a diagnosis  on the  spot                                                               
quickly.   This legislation is a  way to remove guns  quickly and                                                               
efficiently,  and in  the event  the clock  could be  turned back                                                               
10.5 years, he said he would  have moved for the "very important"                                                               
ex  parte  protective order.    He  described this  as  excellent                                                               
legislation that may  need tweaking, and he  referred the sponsor                                                               
to the  great research from  the Department of Health  and Social                                                               
Services (DHSS).                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:43:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HALEY McKINLEY  advised she  is an  18-year old  registered voter                                                               
from  Anchorage  who  recently organized  a  "walk-out"  at  West                                                               
Anchorage  High School  in  protest of  the  perpetuation of  gun                                                               
violence in  the United States,  and she  is an active  member of                                                               
local activist groups  relating to this subject.   Most recently,                                                               
she noted, she has been  working on the planning and organization                                                               
of the  "Sister March for Our  Lives" rally planned in  the State                                                               
of Florida.   Ms. McKinley offered support for HB  75 because the                                                               
safety of civilians and students  is more important than allowing                                                               
dangerous  individuals  access  to firearms,  thereby,  posing  a                                                               
considerable threat to  herself and those she cares about.   As a                                                               
student, this issue  is of particular importance  and she pointed                                                               
to the events  which occurred in Parkland, Florida  two weeks ago                                                               
today.   The Marjory Stoneman  Douglas High School is  located in                                                               
an incredibly safe community and  its students and staff were all                                                               
trained  as   to  Alert,  Lockdown,  Inform,   Counter,  Evacuate                                                               
(ALICE),  just  as the  students  are  trained  at her  own  high                                                               
school.   Regardless  of these  facts, she  pointed out  that the                                                               
Parkland,  Florida shooting  is  presently  the deadliest  school                                                               
shooting to  ever occur  at a  high school  in the  United States                                                               
surpassing  the Columbine  High  School  shooting in  casualties.                                                               
Now, more than ever, (audio  difficulties) no amount of practical                                                               
training or the support of safety  in a given community is enough                                                               
to  not  be caught  up  in  a  shooter  situation, and  the  only                                                               
solution is  to take legal measures  to keep firearms out  of the                                                               
hands of dangerous people.  She  reiterated her support for HB 75                                                               
because she believes it is  the strongest guarantee of the safety                                                               
of herself, her peers, and the community at-large.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:46:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JASON KEDY, Moms  Demand Action for Gun Sense  in Alaska, advised                                                               
that as he sees  kids of all ages traveling to  and from the area                                                               
schools, he considers himself fortunate  to witness firsthand the                                                               
next  generation taking  their formative  steps toward  being the                                                               
future leaders of  our great state.  However, in  the wake of the                                                               
recent numerous reports of gun  violence, there is an added tinge                                                               
of  concern  in  searching  to  find ways  to  protect  our  most                                                               
valuable and beloved resources, our  children.  He stated that HB
75 is a decisive and  comprehensive step toward safe-guarding the                                                               
vulnerable populations  and a step  toward stemming  the epidemic                                                               
of gun  violence in Alaska.   A hallmark of Alaska  is its tight-                                                               
knit community  kinship and the  ability of these  communities to                                                               
work  together  to  create common-sense  solutions  for  everyday                                                               
problems, he  said.  When a  person is in crisis,  he pointed out                                                               
that  close family  members  and law  enforcement  often are  the                                                               
first to  see these warning  signs, and  HB 75 would  connect and                                                               
empower communities  to take immediate and  decisive action while                                                               
also respecting civil liberties and  due process.  The message is                                                               
clear, community  members throughout  Alaska desire a  prompt and                                                               
decisive response to  its dilemma of gun violence, and  it is his                                                               
belief,  he  said, that  HB  75  is  a common-sense  measure  for                                                               
Alaskans.   Oftentimes,  when tragedy  strikes, whether  it is  a                                                               
suicide or a shooting, people look  to the family members and law                                                               
enforcement as having some responsibility.   This legislation now                                                               
gives  family members  and law  enforcement the  ability to  take                                                               
immediate and responsive action  to defuse a dangerous situation,                                                               
and  he asked  the committee  to support  HB 75,  empower Alaskan                                                               
communities, and improve public safety across the state.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:48:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STELLA TALLMON advised that she  is a sophomore at Juneau-Douglas                                                               
High School (JDHS), is a member  of the JDHS student counsel, and                                                               
she supports HB  75.  Earlier this month there  was a shooting at                                                               
a high  school in Parkland, Florida  and 14 kids, "just  like me"                                                               
were murdered, but  she said that she is inspired  by the courage                                                               
of the shooting survivors for  speaking up and advocating for gun                                                               
laws  because that  is what  is needed  right now  in the  United                                                               
States.   The legislature must  pass laws to prevent  guns (audio                                                               
difficulties) and  HB 75 is a  step in the right  direction.  She                                                               
pointed out that each time a  school shooting takes place "we say                                                               
never  again" but  the  "never  again" will  only  happen if  law                                                               
makers  take  action to  prevent  these  lethal weapons.    These                                                               
dangerous  weapons need  to be  abolished from  our 21st  century                                                               
society of which  they have no place.  As  an American, she said,                                                               
she should  not feel scared  to go to  school, "but I  am scared.                                                               
I'm scared that someone will come  into my school and kill me, or                                                               
my  two other  sisters,  or  my friends  with  weapons that  they                                                               
should not possess."  She urged  the committee to vote in support                                                               
of HB  75 because Alaska needs  stricter gun laws, and  she asked                                                               
the committee  to do the  right thing  and secure a  safer future                                                               
for Alaskans.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  Ms. Tallmon  whether it  would be                                                               
wise to  place metal detectors  in schools because  criminals are                                                               
not law-abiding  citizens and  they may steal  a gun  when theirs                                                               
has been taken away ...                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN interrupted Representative  Reinbold and pointed out                                                               
that Ms. Tallmon  is a high school student and  she does not need                                                               
a long-detailed question.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked whether Ms. Tallman  would support                                                               
better  security  on  the  school  campuses,  more  cameras,  and                                                               
possibly armed guards.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TALLMAN responded  that that  would be  appropriate but  the                                                               
main  issue here  is getting  the guns  out of  the hands  of the                                                               
people who should not have guns.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:51:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUZANNE COHEN  advised that she  is a 26-year resident  of Juneau                                                               
and represents four generations of  her family.  She related that                                                               
her grandmother  was an expert  and an  award-winning markswoman,                                                               
her father  served in  the military, her  husband and  sons enjoy                                                               
going out to  the shooting range for some  father-son "blam blam"                                                               
time, and one of her sons  is an avid hunter in Southeast Alaska.                                                               
While  her  family members  are  not  strangers  to guns  or  gun                                                               
ownership, all  of her family  agrees that increased  gun control                                                               
is  needed.    This  legislation   is  a  common-sense  piece  of                                                               
legislation and, she  pointed out, if there is one  thing in this                                                               
gun debate that people seem to  agree on, it is that homicidal or                                                               
suicidal people should  not have access to firearms.   Alaska has                                                               
"very relaxed"  gun regulations and  it also has the  highest gun                                                               
death rate per capita in the  entire country, it is almost double                                                               
the national average.   This legislation gives  law enforcement a                                                               
manner in which to decrease that  number of deaths and, she noted                                                               
that if  this bill  had been  law two years  ago, it  is probable                                                               
that  the  Florida  airport  shooting   by  war  veteran  Esteban                                                               
Santiago would have  been prevented.  (Audio  difficulties) it is                                                               
quite possible that two weeks  ago the Parkland, Florida shooting                                                               
would have been  prevented.  She stressed that  suicide in Alaska                                                               
is  responsible for  over 75  percent  (audio difficulties),  and                                                               
this bill  gives a tool to  families and law enforcement  to save                                                               
the lives  of those people who  are a danger to  themselves.  She                                                               
commented that this  legislation will not avert  every gun death,                                                               
but even  if it reduces  the deaths by one-half,  or one-quarter,                                                               
that would  be an amazing accomplishment  and it would be  a huge                                                               
help to the individuals, families,  and communities of the people                                                               
suffering with mental health issues.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:53:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY DONALDSON advised that she  lives in Juneau and supports HB
75, and  urged the committee  to also support  HB 75.   Alaska is                                                               
able to say  that it has not experienced a  school shooting since                                                               
the  Bethel shooting,  21-years  ago, when  the  principal and  a                                                               
student  were killed.   It  is possible,  with this  legislation,                                                               
that those deaths  may not have taken place, it  is also possible                                                               
that Alaska  could reduce its  suicide rate  by a great  deal and                                                               
also  reduce   domestic  violence  shootings.     She  urged  the                                                               
committee to  support this legislation because  she believes that                                                               
everyone in the room wishes  to keep Alaska's school shootings to                                                               
zero, after  1997.  She expressed  that she would like  Alaska to                                                               
reduce  its horrific  suicide rate,  and for  Alaska to  join the                                                               
five other states that have  passed laws related to gun violence,                                                               
as  follows:   the  States   of  Connecticut,   Indiana,  Oregon,                                                               
Washington, and  California.  Gun violence  protection orders are                                                               
not the  only methods available  to reduce this violence,  but it                                                               
is something  in the state's  immediate possession right  now and                                                               
it could pass this session.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:55:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY  RUE  advised that  she  is  testifying  on behalf  of  her                                                               
husband, Frank Rue, and herself,  and they have been residents of                                                               
Juneau over  40-years.   She mentioned that  they are  gun owners                                                               
and  hunters, and  they both  grew  up in  households with  guns.                                                               
From personal  experience, many communities and  friends know how                                                               
often this  violence occurs wherein  people have access to  a gun                                                               
and they are  either suicidal or are lashing out  to harm others.                                                               
She described this as an  important piece of legislation that can                                                               
fill  that  gap  and  give family  members  and  law  enforcement                                                               
something legally constructive to  keep the person suffering from                                                               
a crisis, their family members,  their friends, and other members                                                               
of  the public  safe.   Personally,  she  offered, her  husband's                                                               
family suffered a suicide wherein  his depressed cousin had a gun                                                               
and killed  himself leaving a  wife and  two young sons.   (Audio                                                               
difficulties) far too  many friends have faced  the heartbreak of                                                               
their children killing  themselves.  It is true  that many things                                                               
can be weapons, but  when a gun is involved there  is a high rate                                                               
of the  success of suicide, this  bill is a win  for everyone, it                                                               
is limited in scope, it is  temporary in nature, and it offers an                                                               
important tool  in a moment  of crisis to do  something positive,                                                               
she remarked.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:58:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LUANN McVEY advised that she  is a retired Juneau school teacher,                                                               
and she  believes that HB 75  is "a really good  start," in terms                                                               
of gun regulations  for Alaska.  It is pretty  obvious, she said,                                                               
that  when  families and  law  enforcement  become aware  that  a                                                               
person is  a threat  to self  or others, that  the person  has no                                                               
business having a gun.   It is society's responsibility to remove                                                               
guns  from those  who  endanger themselves  and  others, and  she                                                               
asked  that  the committee  support  HB  75 with  whatever  small                                                               
changes need to be made.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD asked that when  people know someone is a                                                               
danger to self or others, whether  their car keys should be taken                                                               
from them,  or pills  taken away  so they  cannot overdose.   She                                                               
asked whether Ms. McVey would support those types of efforts.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McVEY responded  that this  bill is  correct in  placing the                                                               
emphasis on  guns because guns can  do so much damage  to so many                                                               
people,  and guns  are  so  successful when  used.    As for  the                                                               
others, such as  a car or pills, to her  those are sidelines, the                                                               
guns are  the issue  and HB  75 is correct  to address  guns, she                                                               
remarked.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  warned Representative Reinbold  that this is  not a                                                               
chance to argue with the witness, but she could ask a question.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  said that  she believes  it is  a mental                                                               
health issue.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN pointed  out that  this is  an opportunity  for the                                                               
public to  testify, of  which the committee  would like  to hear,                                                               
and  not be  engaged in  the debate  that will  take place  after                                                               
public testimony is closed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:00:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD STEELE advised  that he owns two rifles, he  is a hunter,                                                               
and he recently received a permit  for a moose at Berner's Bay of                                                               
which he  is very excited.    He said that  his father-in-law has                                                               
had a camp at Pybus Point since  1961, and they have never had an                                                               
incident because  no loaded guns  are allowed  in the cabin.   He                                                               
remarked that  he wonders whether  in that, microcosm  of society                                                               
in the cabin group, what would  happen if they applied these same                                                               
rules  wherein if  someone was  a danger  to self  or any  of the                                                               
hunters,  they   would  immediately   take  the   weapons  (audio                                                               
difficulties).                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:01:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KARLA HART advised that she strongly  supports this bill as it is                                                               
the  first step  in dealing  with mental  health and  violence in                                                               
America.   This  first step  is  before the  legislature and  she                                                               
urged  the committee  to pass  this legislation  and concurrently                                                               
start working  toward other  bigger successes  for the  safety in                                                               
schools and in America.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:02:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  SONIN,  Civilized  Humanity,  advised  that  he  represents                                                               
Civilized  Humanity and  there  is  a problem  when  it comes  to                                                               
Alaska's  suicide  rate and  its  domestic  violence issues.    A                                                               
weapon of any sort, he  described, can be an impulsive exhilarant                                                               
which  can finalize  the disarray  a person  may be  suffering at                                                               
that moment.   This is a mental health issue  and, he pointed out                                                               
that undiagnosed  schizophrenia and manic depression  is a mental                                                               
health  issue   which  is  pretty  rampant   throughout  society,                                                               
"especially when  you have this  craziness going on in  the White                                                               
House."   This legislation is  the first step, and  society needs                                                               
to irradiate, as  much as possible, all of  the impulsive devices                                                               
that society  has in its  hands to self-annulation.   The suicide                                                               
rate in Alaska  is awful and guns  are a large part  of that rate                                                               
and also  throughout the country.   He  referred to the  issue of                                                               
raising kids on  video games and commented that they  think it is                                                               
a toy.  He asked the committee to support this legislation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  Mr. Sonin  to explain  more about                                                               
video games.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SONIN answered that he was  shocked and saddened to notice in                                                               
his dumpster  that there was a  box for a Play  Station 3 Assault                                                               
Weapon Extension.  He opined that  the person shoots at the video                                                               
screen,  and real  people in  an urban  environment are  shooting                                                               
drug  lord  minions  that  are  real people  on  the  screen  and                                                               
children play  with an assault rifle.   He asked whether  that is                                                               
"how to raise your kids."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD said  that she raised two  boys who spent                                                               
a  lot of  time on  video games  and it  is her  belief that  the                                                               
discussion should be  broader.  She asked whether  he would agree                                                               
with her statement.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SONIN responded  that  the issue  of  education and  raising                                                               
children with  respect and love is  what society must live  by in                                                               
order to remain  a civilized society.  That respect  and love for                                                               
each  other  is  not  being re-enforced  by  the  amusements  the                                                               
marketplace has determined  sells, so they are popular.   When it                                                               
comes to the  video games and when  he saw the box  of an assault                                                               
weapon   extension,  he   was  thrown   for  a   loop.     (Audio                                                               
difficulties).    When it  comes  to  guns,  there is  a  problem                                                               
pinpointing guns  as the  problem.  He  offered a  personal story                                                               
wherein his  father was  a World  War II  veteran, he  raised six                                                               
children, and  he had a problem  with drinking.  One  night, when                                                               
Mr. Sonin was  not at home, his father pulled  out a gun thinking                                                               
he was being  attacked in the house.  Mr.  Sonin heard about this                                                               
event from  his brothers  and sisters, and  he asked  whether the                                                               
committee  could imagine  what  sort of  consequences that  would                                                               
have been  had his father  fired the gun.   It was at  that point                                                               
that his father  took the gun to the local  police department and                                                               
they held it for the family, he related.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:08:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DIEULEVEUT  BIRINGANINE  advised that  she  is  the student  body                                                               
president at Service  High School and that  recently Service High                                                               
School lost a student who  committed suicide with a friend's gun.                                                               
This  event has  caused low  morale at  school lately  and (audio                                                               
difficulties)  to  show  support  toward the  students  who  died                                                               
during  the Parkland,  Florida shooting.   She  advised that  she                                                               
personally organized  the walk-out,  and that  currently students                                                               
are scared  of what is next.   Most students, she  explained, are                                                               
afraid and  tired of the  violence, and  the only people  who are                                                               
really targeted  are students, beginning with  the Columbine High                                                               
School  shooting  to  this  recent  Parkland,  Florida  shooting.                                                               
Students  are worried  about their  brothers  and sisters  moving                                                               
into  high school,  and  she described  this  legislation as  the                                                               
first active  step toward this  issue and she supports  this bill                                                               
because it is pointed toward reducing  gun violence.  It is about                                                               
lives  and  not  really  about (audio  difficulties)  because  as                                                               
someone said,  a person can use  a car and hurt  lives but (audio                                                               
difficulties).  Voting  on this bill is thinking  about the lives                                                               
that are on  the line, and not  really about who holds  a gun and                                                               
who  does not  hold a  gun.   This legislation  is about  helping                                                               
people who (audio difficulties) who did  have access to a gun and                                                               
he just took the opportunity and  "there goes another life."  She                                                               
asked the committee to support HB 75.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:12:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AMOS KISSEL offered his belief the  HB 75 is a great bill because                                                               
it targets the  "bad guys with guns" and not  the "good guys with                                                               
guns."   The  line between  the  good guys  and the  bad guys  is                                                               
always changing, and the amazing  thing about this legislation is                                                               
that it recognizes this issue  because the forfeiture of firearms                                                               
only  exists between  two weeks  and six  months.   Meanwhile, he                                                               
said, felons  are required to avoid  firearms for ten years.   He                                                               
noted a  strong desire to become  trained in firearms one  day so                                                               
he can  protect his family and  community, and he would  not like                                                               
this right taken away from  anyone with an interest in protecting                                                               
others.   However, he noted that  he has witnessed times  when he                                                               
and  others  lose control  and  do  not recognize  the  dangerous                                                               
symptoms  of  mental  illness  taking  over.    This  legislation                                                               
creates safer communities recognizing  that anyone can go through                                                               
such  a mental  breakdown  at  any point  in  life,  and just  as                                                               
quickly receive the treatment they  need to recover.  He remarked                                                               
that  being  served  this  protective  order  asking  someone  to                                                               
surrender  their  firearms  is  a major  wake-up  call,  it  also                                                               
provides an  incentive for  the person to  get help  and overcome                                                               
the issues that  led to the protective order being  issued in the                                                               
first  place.   There  are  people  who  may believe  that  false                                                               
accusations will result  in the justice system  taking away their                                                               
firearms;  however, he pointed  out, society should have complete                                                               
faith in  the justice system's  ability to recognize  cases where                                                               
false accusations  are placed on  the respondent.  The  courts do                                                               
not  take the  issue of  protective orders  lightly and  it makes                                                               
every  effort to  ensure that  a protective  order is  not issued                                                               
frivolously,  and that  the several  options had  been exhausted.                                                               
Thereby, he  advised, a  mentally healthy  person has  nothing to                                                               
fear from false accusations as it  would never stand up under the                                                               
scrutiny of  the judge,  and hearsay alone  is never  anything to                                                               
fear being  used against a  person in the  court.  He  noted that                                                               
the most  intelligent criticism of HB  75 is that it  would be an                                                               
undue burden to  those who live a  subsistence hunting lifestyle,                                                               
and in this  case a forfeiture of firearms would  mean they could                                                               
no longer  put food on  the table.   However, this bill  does not                                                               
say that and it is a  "fake news interpretation," he opined.  The                                                               
critics must  realize that the  state's justice system  works and                                                               
its courts  are 100 percent  responsible when handling  a complex                                                               
case involving  a subsistence  hunter and  a potential  victim of                                                               
gun violence.   This  is a  great bill  because it  also requires                                                               
mental  health  professionals  to   report  threats  of  violence                                                               
against potential victims, he expressed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:14:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD noted that  oftentimes felons end up with                                                               
guns anyway and asked whether  sometimes it is better to alienate                                                               
the felon because they have already  broken the law and will find                                                               
guns.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KISSEL advised  that  he did  not  know what  Representative                                                               
Reinbold meant about "alienate the person" ...                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD clarified "isolate."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KISSEL  said that he  did not know  how that would  work, but                                                               
this  is  a wake-up  call  because  when  a protective  order  is                                                               
served,  that is  a message  to the  person that  they are  doing                                                               
something wrong and the system  is involved.  Whether that person                                                               
chooses to  work with the system  or go against the  system, that                                                               
is not anything that can be controlled, he pointed out.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD said  that  sometimes when  a person  is                                                               
bound and determined to hurt  their spouse in a domestic violence                                                               
situation it would  appear that the course of action  would be to                                                               
remove the person from the situation  until they are able to calm                                                               
down.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. KISSEL commented that that would  be for the courts to decide                                                               
because it is  his understanding that when a  protective order is                                                               
issued, it automatically  triggers that the person  must turn the                                                               
firearms into law  enforcement within 24-hours or sell  them to a                                                               
licensed dealer.   He pointed out that the  other situation where                                                               
a  person needs  to be  removed, that  is a  completely different                                                               
subject as far as he understands.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:17:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATE WOOL described  herself as a concerned citizen,  a mother of                                                               
future generations, and  offered support for HB 75.   She advised                                                               
that three-years ago, concerned  parents spearheaded the start of                                                               
an existing  national campaign called  "Asking Saves  Kids (ASK)"                                                               
at  her  daughter's  elementary  school.    The  premise  of  the                                                               
campaign  is for  parents to  ask other  parents, before  sending                                                               
their child to someone's house,  whether there is an unlocked gun                                                               
where their child  plays.  Parents are  communicating a potential                                                               
threat  and creating  a dialogue  with one  common goal,  keeping                                                               
their children safe.  An unlocked  gun is risky for a child, even                                                               
deadly, just like a  gun in the hands of an  unstable person is a                                                               
risk to  everyone, even deadly.   Communicating that risk  to the                                                               
right people  creates a dialogue  of care and concern  whether it                                                               
is for a  child's play date or  a family member in  need of help,                                                               
she said.   The  Alaska campaign  has been  a success  because it                                                               
brings  people together  with  one  common goal,  and  HB 75  can                                                               
experience the same type of success.   She said she supports this                                                               
legislation because it is an  incremental step in gun safety that                                                               
implements a system  of prevention and care to  help decrease the                                                               
risk of suicide, violence, and  even death for Alaskans and their                                                               
families.   Within  the past  six months  she has  had two  close                                                               
friends with  family members and  loved ones commit  suicide, and                                                               
this bill might have helped them.   She thanked the committee for                                                               
always working hard  to make Alaska a better and  safer place for                                                               
all of its citizens.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  commented that he  appreciated the                                                               
testifier's op-ed in the Fairbanks Daily News Miner.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:19:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TALIA JOHNSON  described HB 75 as  an "amazing bill," and  a step                                                               
in the  right direction because  she is  sick and tired  of being                                                               
scared to go to school on  certain days due to what might happen,                                                               
especially  when students  can take  guns from  their parents  or                                                               
from anyone  who has a  gun.  While  she realizes this  bill will                                                               
not  end all  gun  violence, she  knows it  will  make a  change.                                                               
Clearly, she said,  the laws against murder do  not stop murders,                                                               
but HB  75 is  an amazing bill  at such a  difficult time.   This                                                               
legislation will make a change whether  it is large or small, and                                                               
it is  a great idea  to give someone the  ability to go  to court                                                               
and  offer testimony  against those  people who  should not  have                                                               
guns.  She asked the committee to support HB 75.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:21:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAYNE ANDREEN  advised that she  is a private  citizen testifying                                                               
with background  information (audio  difficulties).   Ms. Andreen                                                               
offered testimony as follows:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Back  in the  early 1990s,  I was  the director  of the                                                                    
     domestic violence  program in  Homer.  And,  I remember                                                                    
     getting  a phone  call at  home on  a Sunday  afternoon                                                                    
     from  one  of the  doctors  in  town who  said,  (audio                                                                    
     difficulties) mental health contacted  you, and I said,                                                                    
     "No, why?"   There was a man who  had presented himself                                                                    
     to the ER  over the weekend who said that  his wife had                                                                    
     left him, he blamed our  agency, and he was afraid that                                                                    
     he was going to  try to kill us, me, and  my staff.  He                                                                    
     agreed to a voluntary assessment  up at API.  They sent                                                                    
     him off,  but we were supposed  to be notified.   I was                                                                    
     supposed  to  be  notified  because   we  had  an  open                                                                    
     facility  and what  was I  going  to do  to protect  my                                                                    
     staff?   Now,  one  of  the things  I  learned is  that                                                                    
     because it was voluntary, he  was actually back in town                                                                    
     48-hours later.   I didn't  have the 72-hour  period of                                                                    
     time that  I thought.  I  also met with the  police and                                                                    
     the mental  health director and  they both  went "Well,                                                                    
     you know, he presented.  It  seemed okay."  And, I told                                                                    
     the  police officer  "Go back  and check  your records,                                                                    
     there is  a long history  with this man  with weapons."                                                                    
     They  went back,  he checked,  he called  up and  said,                                                                    
     "Jane,  I'm so  sorry, you  do have  to take  immediate                                                                    
     action."   The man's wife in  this ... there was  a 24-                                                                    
     hour period there  that things were really  crazy.  She                                                                    
     called me  and she said, "I  have access to all  of his                                                                    
     guns, he  has a lot  of guns.  Can  I ... I  called the                                                                    
     police, they said  they could hold them  but they would                                                                    
     have to  give them  back to  him as  soon as  he asked.                                                                    
     Can  I throw  them in  the harbor?"   And,  I said,  "I                                                                    
     cannot  advise you  to do  anything with  his property.                                                                    
     What would  be best  is if you  could follow  the legal                                                                    
     channels."   Now, since  that time,  I know  that there                                                                    
     have been improvements to the  law in terms of what can                                                                    
     be done.   But, I think that this is  a classic example                                                                    
     of the  type of situation,  whether or not it  is about                                                                    
     domestic  violence,   he  recognized  that  he   had  a                                                                    
     problem.  But, that did  not remove the danger that was                                                                    
     there for  myself, and  for my  staff, and  for anybody                                                                    
     else that he might have targeted.   So, I just ... this                                                                    
     has been  resonating through my  head as I've  sat here                                                                    
     listening to this testimony.   And, I just ... anything                                                                    
     that we can  do to help people avoid doing  things in a                                                                    
     state of  crisis, in a  state of emotion, in  the state                                                                    
     of  whatever, I  think would  be really  beneficial for                                                                    
     Alaska.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked what  happens when there  are five                                                               
adults in  a house  and one  person is unstable,  but all  of the                                                               
guns are taken  from the mentally healthy people due  to that one                                                               
mentally unhealthy  person at  the time.   The  mentally unstable                                                               
person steals a  gun and comes back  and there is no  way for the                                                               
four people to  defend themselves.  She  commented that sometimes                                                               
guns are  necessary for self-defense  and asked whether  a better                                                               
option rather than law enforcement is having a combination safe.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANDREEN responded that a person  could come up with all sorts                                                               
of scenarios  and it is  important to have the  discussions about                                                               
different  possible perspectives.   Except,  when reading  of the                                                               
Parkland, Florida  shooting she thinks  about the people  who had                                                               
taken  him out  of  the  goodness of  their  hearts  and did  not                                                               
realize his  history in terms  of potential mental illness.   The                                                               
family set up  the safety factors, they made him  get a gun safe,                                                               
they made  him give them  the key,  and it was  her understanding                                                               
that he  asked twice for  the key, once  they said yes,  and once                                                               
they said no.   Unfortunately, they did not know  he had kept his                                                               
own key so  he had his own  access anyway, she said.   This bill,                                                               
she  described, is  as  much  about the  types  of situations  in                                                               
school shootings  as it  is about suicide  prevention.   She said                                                               
she lost  two first cousins to  suicide by firearm, and  she does                                                               
not want any family to have to go through that tragedy.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:27:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANNA  FRASER advised  that she  is a  junior at  Thunder Mountain                                                               
High  School and  she  supports  HB 75  because  it  is sad  that                                                               
schools have  to practice  "school shooter  drills" the  same way                                                               
they  practice fire  drills.   She  reminded  the committee  that                                                               
Thunder  Mountain High  School had  a school  shooter threat  and                                                               
over 70 percent of the  students skipped school because they were                                                               
afraid of being shot at school.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:27:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOSH QUINTO  described that  he is a  senior at  Thunder Mountain                                                               
High School  and offered  support for  HB 75.   He pointed  to an                                                               
earlier  discussion  about  bringing  metal  detectors  into  the                                                               
schools, and  after many conversations with  classmates, they all                                                               
agree that  that is not  a good solution.   Although, he  said it                                                               
can  help find  concealed weaponry  but what  is to  stop someone                                                               
from simply walking  straight through the metal  detector and not                                                               
caring and it is only effective  when it is a targeted attack and                                                               
not  when the  person  just  wants to  kill  a  bunch of  people.                                                               
Taking  away a  person's ability  to have  that gun  should be  a                                                               
better solution.   He said he  will not be attending  high school                                                               
much  longer but  he does  not want  to have  to worry  about his                                                               
younger siblings  or any  of his classmates  going to  school any                                                               
longer.  It is just not right, he expressed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:28:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  asked  whether he  had  researched  the                                                               
effectiveness of metal detectors.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. QUINTO responded  that he had researched the issue  and for a                                                               
while he  was looking  into the effectiveness  of TSA.   Evidence                                                               
found that TSA  has not been fully effective because  a study was                                                               
performed where TSA missed 95  percent of the threats "they threw                                                               
at them."   The reason for the requirement to  take off our shoes                                                               
[when going  through TSA]  is because it  missed a  shoe bombing.                                                               
It is basically "security theater"  which can help deter, but for                                                               
someone  who is  mentally  ill and  doesn't  care about  security                                                               
theater, it is not effective.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:29:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD said  that when  someone goes  through a                                                               
metal detector [with a gun] it  could put people on better alert,                                                               
and for anything  to help protect the children in  the schools, a                                                               
metal detector is a good step.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  QUINTO   answered  that  he  understands   wanting  to  have                                                               
heightened awareness, but with the  heightened awareness can also                                                               
come fear and  an inability to focus.   When he is  at school, he                                                               
should  not  have to  have  a  heightened awareness  for  someone                                                               
coming in  and shooting him,  he should be  able to go  to school                                                               
and learn  and not  have to worry  about someone  threatening his                                                               
life, he expressed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:30:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS referred  to  the  period of  time                                                               
after the  Parkland, Florida shooting  and before Mr.  Quinto was                                                               
aware of  this piece of legislation  and asked him to  relate the                                                               
conversations  that took  place at  Thunder Mountain  High School                                                               
between his  peers that organically  evolved in terms of  a means                                                               
to prevent  what happened  in Florida,  at Thunder  Mountain High                                                               
School.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. QUINTO  responded that  those types  of conversations  were a                                                               
bit rare.   Although, many  of his  friends in his  AP Government                                                               
class  talked about  having background  checks, those  with prior                                                               
felonies,  and taking  away  the  right to  have  a firearm  from                                                               
certain people.   Those people who  abide by the laws  and do not                                                               
pose a  threat to anyone can  have their guns, go  shooting, have                                                               
their  fun, and  live off  subsistence, but  certain people  with                                                               
mental illnesses  who have  shown to  commit violent  crimes with                                                               
these guns should have them taken  away, he said.  A big argument                                                               
for   his  statement   is  in   the  constitution,   wherein  the                                                               
constitution had  laws about slaves  and now those laws  are gone                                                               
because society realized  those laws were wrong.   Therefore, the                                                               
constitution  is not  "rock  solid" in  its  beliefs.   Society's                                                               
beliefs have changed  over the centuries and its laws  need to be                                                               
able to change with those beliefs,  which is why he supports this                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN warned  Representative  Reinbold that  he does  not                                                               
want the  discussion to go  down the  line of different  views on                                                               
the  constitution, and  the  committee  appreciates Mr.  Quinto's                                                               
views.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:33:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  noted that in a  perfect world, possibly                                                               
a  student would  not need  to be  aware [of  a threat]  in their                                                               
classroom.  She  asked whether he feels he needs  to be aware [of                                                               
a threat] on  the streets, and in public, and  commented that the                                                               
best self-defense is  awareness.  She referred  to his statements                                                               
about  mental  health and  asked  whether  judges should  receive                                                               
training  [in  diagnosing  mental  health] or  whether  it  is  a                                                               
physician's  role to  diagnose mental  health  issues before  the                                                               
guns are taken.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. QUINTO  answered that  judges trained in  the law  should not                                                               
have  to be  able to  diagnose someone,  which is  why there  are                                                               
doctors trained in  the mental health system.  A  person could be                                                               
referred to a  doctor to be evaluated, and he  reiterated that he                                                               
does not see why judges should have to diagnose someone.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:34:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEAN CHANG  advised that she  is a  resident of Eagle  River, she                                                               
supports  this  legislation,  and  she is  an  alumnus  from  the                                                               
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School,  in Parkland, Florida where                                                               
the mass shooting took place.   It is her belief that the shooter                                                               
committed this heinous  crime because he was mentally  ill and he                                                               
had access  to an AR-15  assault rifle  and other firearms.   She                                                               
pointed  out that  the combination  of his  volatile and  violent                                                               
psychological history and  his access to firearms  enabled him to                                                               
kill  17  people and  injure  dozens  of  others at  her  school.                                                               
Speaking as someone who personally  witnessed the effects of this                                                               
tragedy, she  believes that the  citizens of the State  of Alaska                                                               
and especially  its vulnerable students  would benefit  from this                                                               
bill.    This  legislation   facilitates,  for  law  enforcement,                                                               
concerned family members, and  medical professionals, the ability                                                               
to  question  and assess  whether  a  person  poses a  danger  to                                                               
students and  society.  She  offered her hope that  the committee                                                               
supports this bill.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:36:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  NEES  commented   that  there  had  been   "lots  of  good                                                               
testimony," but he questioned the  necessity of this legislation.                                                               
He referred  to Sec. 6,  [AS 18.65.815(b), page 3,  lines 19-21],                                                               
which read as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          (b)  When a  petition  for a  protective order  is                                                                    
     filed, the  court shall schedule a  hearing and provide                                                                    
     at  least 10  days'  notice to  the  respondent of  the                                                                    
     hearing and of the respondent's  right to appear and be                                                                    
     heard, either in person or through an attorney.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  NEES offered  concern regarding  the  10-day waiting  period                                                               
from  the time  someone  requests a  protective  order until  the                                                               
person  actually   appears  in   court.     He  referred   to  AS                                                               
47.30.700(a), which read as follows:                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Initiation of Involuntary Commitment Procedures                                                                            
          (a)  Upon petition  of any  adult,  a judge  shall                                                                    
     immediately  conduct   a  screening   investigation  or                                                                    
     direct a  local mental health professional  employed by                                                                    
     the  department or  by a  local  mental health  program                                                                    
     that  receives  money  from  the  department  under  AS                                                                    
     47.30.520   -  47.30.620   or  another   mental  health                                                                    
     professional  designated by  the  judge,  to conduct  a                                                                    
     screening  investigation of  the person  alleged to  be                                                                    
     mentally  ill  and,  as a  result  of  that  condition,                                                                    
     alleged  to  be  gravely  disabled   or  to  present  a                                                                    
     likelihood of serious harm to self or others.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  NEES pointed  out  that  this statute  allows  that a  judge                                                               
immediately evaluates  so it has  an easier  path in, and  it has                                                               
the shorter  wait time  of 48-72-hour "time  out" at  which point                                                               
the person would have  no access to guns.  He  opined that if the                                                               
committee  blends the  intent of  this bill  with current  law it                                                               
could achieve  the goal of some  "time out" when people  are in a                                                               
state of crisis.  He pointed  out that this legislation is not as                                                               
restrictive  as  current  law,  and it  needs  to  be  fine-tuned                                                               
because he  does not see  the necessity of  a bill when  there is                                                               
already a law on the books.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:38:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MADELINE  SCHOLL advised  that she  has lived  in Alaska  for 28-                                                               
years, she  is a concerned Alaskan,  and a local member  of "Moms                                                               
Demand Action for  Gun Sense in America."   At every opportunity,                                                               
she said  that she is a  volunteer for gun safety,  a "Sandy Hook                                                               
Promise" supporter,  and she  supports HB 75.   Alaskans  are all                                                               
too  aware of  the  epidemic of  gun deaths  by  suicide in  this                                                               
beloved  state   and  how  it  disproportionally   affects  rural                                                               
Alaskans and  members of  the military.   This  legislation would                                                               
reduce the number  of deaths by suicide in Alaska  by providing a                                                               
method for limiting a suicidal  person's access to firearms.  She                                                               
pointed out that nine out ten  suicide attempts with a gun result                                                               
in  death, whereas,  as other  testifiers  have testified  today,                                                               
most suicide attempts by other means,  such as a car or pills, do                                                               
not always result in death.   In fact, she advised, most of those                                                               
often do  not make  a second  attempt.   Ms. Scholl  testified as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I, personally, wish  this bill had been a  state law in                                                                    
     May of  2008, when  a very good  friend of  mine, Nick,                                                                    
     took  his  own life  with  a  gun  during a  moment  of                                                                    
     personal crisis.   He was 21-years  old, studying music                                                                    
     education at UAS,  where we met, and was  loved by many                                                                    
     friends and  family who  filled the  Great Hall  at UAS                                                                    
     for his memorial service.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     And, this year marks the  10th anniversary of his death                                                                    
     and the heartache of losing  him is felt just as deeply                                                                    
     as it was 10 years ago.  And,  if HB 75 had been law at                                                                    
     that   time,  Nick's   immediate   family   or  a   law                                                                    
     enforcement  officer could  have  petitioned the  court                                                                    
     for  one of  these  Red Flag  orders,  which this  bill                                                                    
     calls  the Gun  Violence  Protective Order.   And,  the                                                                    
     court  could  have reviewed  all  of  the evidence  and                                                                    
     testimony  of both  parties, and  under  this bill,  to                                                                    
     temporarily  take away  a person's  gun, a  judge would                                                                    
     have to  find by clear  and convincing evidence  that a                                                                    
     person is dangerous,  or if the matter  is an immediate                                                                    
     emergency, by a preponderance of the evidence.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In  Nick's  case, a  judge  could  have deemed  him  an                                                                    
     immediate  danger  of  harming himself  or  others  and                                                                    
     could  have required  Nick to  temporarily forfeit  any                                                                    
     firearms  in his  possession.   And, Nick's  life could                                                                    
     have  been saved,  and  that's all  I'm  saying.   And,                                                                    
     isn't the possibility, just  the possibility, that this                                                                    
     bill could save  even just one person's  life, or deter                                                                    
     them from  committing suicide with  a gun, and  even if                                                                    
     they  end up,  you  know, finding  a  weapon and  other                                                                    
     means,  we should  make it  harder for  them to  access                                                                    
     firearms.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:41:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHELLE  PUTZ  advised that  she  only  uses  guns for  all  the                                                               
reasons  Alaskan's own  guns, such  as  hunting, protection  from                                                               
bears, and  for fun.  She  offered that she had  a "lady shooting                                                               
party" on  her 40th birthday, so  no one can claim  that she does                                                               
not  support   the  Second   Amendment.     She  said   that  she                                                               
appreciates, supports,  and urges  the committee to  support this                                                               
legislation  and to  even provide  more protection  under HB  75.                                                               
Ms. Putz testified as follows:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     A short  story, my  cousin, known to  the family  to be                                                                    
     somewhat  unstable   was  ...   the  family   told  law                                                                    
     enforcement several  times that  he was  unstable, they                                                                    
     didn't do anything about it.   He eventually ... no one                                                                    
     knows how  he got the gun,  but he got a  gun, shot his                                                                    
     mother  -  killed  her,  set the  house  on  fire,  and                                                                    
     essentially put  himself out  there to  be shot  by the                                                                    
     police.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     So, it's affected  me personally, and so  I really want                                                                    
     to  not just  urge you  to do  this but  consider doing                                                                    
     even  more.    Including   ...  you  know,  to  protect                                                                    
     Alaskans  and   Americans  by  banning   high  capacity                                                                    
     magazines, expanding background  checks to all, banning                                                                    
     the  sale of  assault rifles  and (indisc.),  and doing                                                                    
     whatever you can.  I think that it is about the guns.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:43:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELIZABETH  TOMPSON advised  that she  supports this  legislation.                                                               
Ms. Tompson  then described a  situation in Petersburg  years ago                                                               
where someone at the Harbor Master  Shack was angry and said they                                                               
were going  to "go kill a  bunch of people," and  law enforcement                                                               
locked down all  of the schools and her daughter  was there.  She                                                               
related  that since  she was  a little  kid, she  knew that  when                                                               
someone  is  in  the  airport  to not  make  bomb  jokes  because                                                               
security  will descend  upon the  person and  they will  not make                                                               
their flight.   She said that  people need to be  responsible for                                                               
the words  they speak and  if someone says  they are going  to go                                                               
kill a bunch of people, there  should be something the people who                                                               
heard the  comment can  do to help  prevent that  from happening,                                                               
and  this legislation  gives Alaskans  something they  can do  in                                                               
those situations.  She supports  giving Alaskans tools to step in                                                               
when someone  is clearly  in a  mental crisis  to make  sure they                                                               
don't hurt themselves or any other person, she offered.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:44:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GENEVIEVE  MINA  advised  she  is   a  UAA  student,  a  lifelong                                                               
Anchorage resident, and  is in support of this  legislation.  She                                                               
commended Representative  Tarr for  recognizing that  these types                                                               
of  gun limitations  are necessary  while  knowing that  Alaskans                                                               
feel  strongly  about  gun  rights,   and  she  acknowledged  her                                                               
ignorance as to firearm terminology  and gun sales.  She stressed                                                               
that she  wants effective evidence-based  solutions and  that she                                                               
can speak to  these specific gun violence protective  orders  Ms.                                                               
Mina offered testimony as follows:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     My  father  was a  gun  owner,  he was  diagnosed  with                                                                    
     depression, which my family knew  about.  And, 10-years                                                                    
     ago he sat on the couch with  a gun in his hand, my mom                                                                    
     walked in  and he pointed  the gun  at her but  did not                                                                    
     shoot.   He,  instead,  shot himself  in  front of  the                                                                    
     woman  he   married  with  his  children   at  home  on                                                                    
     Thanksgiving Day.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     A gun  made his  split-second decision permanent.   Any                                                                    
     suicide is horrific and terrifying,  but I believe that                                                                    
     suicide by  gun is by-far  the worst.  No  other method                                                                    
     is as jarring,  as easy, as instantaneous,  as loud, as                                                                    
     bloody, and  as effective.   And,  according to  a 2016                                                                    
     report by  the ADN, about  80 percent of gun  deaths in                                                                    
     Alaska  in   2014  were  not   by  homicides   or  mass                                                                    
     shootings, but suicide.   I quote, "  Alaskans are more                                                                    
     than twice  as likely to  commit suicide with a  gun as                                                                    
     the  average American,  68.9  percent  of all  suicides                                                                    
     involved a gun."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     As much as Alaskans  love the Second Amendment, suicide                                                                    
     by gun is  the biggest elephant in the room  in our gun                                                                    
     debate.  If  passed, HB 75 would do  more than mitigate                                                                    
     suicides  or homicides,  it could  prevent  a son  from                                                                    
     delivering the worst  news to his aunts  and uncles, it                                                                    
     could repair the trauma of  a daughter growing up to be                                                                    
     threatened by loud noises, and  it could prevent a mom,                                                                    
     a  lifelong nurse,  from being  forced to  use her  own                                                                    
     profession to save  her husband.  I  urge the committee                                                                    
     to pass HB 75.  I thank you for your time.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:46:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAIGE HODSON  advised that she  is a 56-year resident  of Alaska,                                                               
wife, mother  of three, a  hunter, and a  gun owner.   She listed                                                               
her advocacy  involvements as follows:  she has been  involved in                                                               
advocacy  for  abused women  and  children  as a  court-appointed                                                               
special advocate (CASA) volunteer;  ran and operated national and                                                               
statewide  support groups  for domestic  violence victims  facing                                                               
custody challenges  by their children's  abusers; and  a national                                                               
and state  speaker on those issues.   She urged the  committee to                                                               
support HB  75.   Last year,  as she was  preparing a  speech for                                                               
educators  and  mental  health  professionals  at  UAA  on  these                                                               
issues, two  mothers seeking to  leave their abusers  were killed                                                               
by guns, one in Anchorage and  one in Fairbanks.  She pointed out                                                               
that the Anchorage  mother had a short-term  protective order and                                                               
was in the midst of divorce;  and there were three hostage police                                                               
standoff situations involving guns, two  in Anchorage, one in Big                                                               
Lake.   These events  all involved victims  who were  mothers and                                                               
some with  their children  present, and  all of  the perpetrators                                                               
had  criminal histories  including  domestic  violence.   Nikolas                                                               
Jacob Cruz,  a former  student at  Marjory Stoneman  Douglas High                                                               
School in Parkland, Florida, killed  17 people, and prior to that                                                               
tragic  event had  multiple contacts  with  the Anchorage  Police                                                               
Department for  domestic violence perpetrated against  the mother                                                               
and child.   She advised that he had strangled  the mother on two                                                               
occasions  but  was  only  charged  with  criminal  mischief  and                                                               
property damage  misdemeanors, and  he was  put into  a diversion                                                               
program and an  anger management program.  In the  event this man                                                               
had been  properly charged with  a felony and prosecuted,  he may                                                               
never had been able  to possess a gun.  The  FBI agents with whom                                                               
"he brought  an ammo clip to  and talked about CIA  plots," could                                                               
have used their type of law to remove  his guns in the midst of a                                                               
clear  mental  health breakdown  when  the  rest of  the  process                                                               
failed.   She  related that  last spring,  a 69-year  old veteran                                                               
showed signs of mental decline  to his family, neighbors, and his                                                               
psychiatrist, in the  months leading to his death  during an arms                                                               
standoff with  police on  the Anchorage Hillside.   The  death of                                                               
that man and  the injuries to the two police  officers could have                                                               
been prevented  with an extreme  violence protective  order, such                                                               
as this.  Common threads  among mass shooters, she explained, are                                                               
previous  histories of  domestic violence,  and it  should be  no                                                               
surprise  that the  same  people who  harm  families also  attack                                                               
total strangers.     Oftentimes, it is  the close  family members                                                               
that  see the  first  red  flags in  behaviors  such as  suicidal                                                               
ideation  and threats  of harm  to self  and others.   This  bill                                                               
would prevent senseless  tragedies in Alaska and  the nation, and                                                               
she hopes this legislature will be  the leaders in that nation to                                                               
strengthening  its laws  on domestic  violence  and child  abuse,                                                               
including  common-sense measures  to  prevent  gun violence,  she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:49:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EILEEN FOYLE-SAFT advised she has  been an Anchorage resident for                                                               
35-years, she looks  forward to growing older in  Alaska, and she                                                               
taught in  the primary  grades in  the Anchorage  School District                                                               
for the last 27-years.  She related  that she is honored to be an                                                               
educator and  she remains proud  of the fine citizens  the school                                                               
districts produce  and continue to  teach.  Many of  the citizens                                                               
within which she has interacted  have expressed a need to address                                                               
gun  violence  in  America,  the  school  shootings  have  become                                                               
America's  national tragedy  and  its attention  is commanded  in                                                               
many areas.  A significant area  can be addressed now through the                                                               
passage of  HB 75, as  it is  clearly a common-sense  response to                                                               
the  gun violence  epidemic sweeping  across schools  and cities.                                                               
Guns must not be readily available  for unstable people who are a                                                               
danger to themselves and others,  she urged the committee to pass                                                               
this common-sense bill that promotes responsible gun ownership.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:51:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KARA HOLLATZ advised that she  is a lifelong Alaskan having grown                                                               
up in Juneau  and returned after college  and taught Kindergarten                                                               
before becoming a stay-at-home mom  to her children.  She advised                                                               
that the State of Connecticut enacted  a similar law in 2013, and                                                               
researchers  estimate that  for every  10.5 guns  collected under                                                               
this  law, one  person was  stopped from  taking their  own life.                                                               
The State  of Connecticut  estimates that  by removing  guns from                                                               
high  risk people,  it may  have  prevented up  to 100  suicides.                                                               
Currently, she  said that she  worries when sending  her children                                                               
to school  and she wants  to see changes to  the gun laws  so she                                                               
feels that  her children  are at least  safer.   This legislation                                                               
appears  to  be a  good  first  step as  it  is  well known  that                                                               
countries with  more gun laws have  less gun violence.   She then                                                               
quoted Albert Einstein, as follows:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The world is a dangerous place, not because of those                                                                       
     who do evil, but because of those who look on and do                                                                       
     nothing.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLATZ urged  the committee "not to look on"  but to instead                                                               
protect  those who  need help  even  though not  everyone can  be                                                               
protected from  everything.   However, she  related that  if this                                                               
legislation saves  one life, the legislature  has done something,                                                               
and she asked the committee to support HB 75.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:52:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DANA DARDIS advised  that she supports HB 75,  and although there                                                               
are  many  steps to  be  taken,  this is  a  good  first step  in                                                               
protecting  the  public,  and  it does  not  infringe  on  Second                                                               
Amendment  rights.    Many  mass   shooters  have  a  history  of                                                               
depression, domestic  violence, or  other violent  behaviors, she                                                               
pointed out, and it is time  to pay attention and take meaningful                                                               
steps  to  protect  Alaska's communities  and  all  of  America's                                                               
citizens.   She asked the  committee to  please be brave  and "do                                                               
the moral thing."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:53:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER  COLLIN  advised  that  she  has  been  a  proud  Alaska                                                               
resident since  2002 and is  the mother of  two young boys.   She                                                               
related that she is in strong  support of HB 75, to establish gun                                                               
violence  protective   orders  in   Alaska,  and   she  commended                                                               
Representatives  Tarr,  Sponhnholz,  and  Drummond's  efforts  to                                                               
prevent future  violence.   As a  mother of  two young  boys, she                                                               
said she is  terrified to know that they could  become victims of                                                               
a  shooting  at   school,  a  place  that  should   be  safe  and                                                               
nourishing.   Her kindergartener  asked what they  were preparing                                                               
for during the lock-down drills, and  it breaks her heart to have                                                               
to explain  the reason.  It  is her belief that  her child should                                                               
be able to attend school without  the threat of being murdered by                                                               
an active shooter, and this legislation  is the least that can be                                                               
done  to reduce  this threat.    It has  been shown  that in  the                                                               
school shootings,  including the  recent mass murder  of innocent                                                               
children and teachers in Parkland,  Florida, the vast majority of                                                               
the shooters  showed signs of their  intentions before committing                                                               
these horrific acts.   Gun violence protective orders  such as HB
75  are  critical tools  in  preventing  gun violence  before  it                                                               
happens because it  empowers families to intervene  when they see                                                               
signs of violent  behavior.  These orders mirror  the same effect                                                               
of the  judicial process of  domestic violence and  several other                                                               
protection  orders.   When there  is documented  evidence that  a                                                               
person is threatening to harm  themselves or others, families and                                                               
law  enforcement can  petition the  court to  temporarily suspend                                                               
that  person's access  to firearms.   She  expressed that  she is                                                               
proud to  support HB 75, and  she urged the passage  of this bill                                                               
because it is time to demand a clamp in gun violence.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:55:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE EDWARDS  commented that  "a bunch of  women are  calling in                                                               
with prepared statements, it looks like  a conspiracy to me."  He                                                               
related that  the problem in the  Butte area is that  everyone he                                                               
knows that was unarmed is now  dead, and the ones that were armed                                                               
are normally  still alive.   Enforcement of the existing  laws is                                                               
needed,  not   more  gun  laws,   and  he  described   that  this                                                               
legislation is just more gun  confiscation, "I can tell, it's all                                                               
over  the country,  you know."    He said  that this  legislature                                                               
needs to  push those people back,  and enforce the law,  and have                                                               
the people evaluated who are  actually doing the threatening.  He                                                               
commented  that the  judge cannot  be trusted  who does  not know                                                               
this  person,  he will  just  sit  in  there  and go  along  with                                                               
whatever.  "Some woman call in,  say she got slapped in the face,                                                               
take all  her guns away,  it ain't gonna  work," he offered.   He                                                               
stated that  all "we're  lookin at  is a  conspiracy to  take our                                                               
guns away."   He said that  "If you look at  Florida, same thing,                                                               
all  over  the place,  they're  shooting  the place  up,  they're                                                               
running railroad trains, we almost  lost a senator in our river."                                                               
He  asked what  a person  is to  do, "you  gonna take  a pressure                                                               
cooker, let's  register all the pressure  cookers, let's register                                                               
all  the   machetes,  let's  register   this  that,   the  bombs,                                                               
everything,  black  powder,  whatever,  not gonna  work."    This                                                               
legislation won't work  and it is another "touchy  feely, make it                                                               
look good,  and all these  women are gonna  call in, and  it just                                                               
not gonna work.  We gotta do the corrective actions."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  advised  that  Representative  Tarr's  office  has                                                               
received 65 letters and emails in support of HB 75.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:58:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN,  after  ascertaining  no one  wished  to  testify,                                                               
closed public  testimony on HB  75, with  the caveat that  in the                                                               
event only one person wished  to testify, he would re-open public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:58:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  referred to [AS 18.65.835(b)(1)],  page 7                                                               
line 1, which read as follows:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
               (1) "Violation of this order may be a                                                                            
     misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year of                                                                               
     incarceration and a fine of up to $10,000"; and                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  commented that generally speaking,  he is                                                               
not  particularly   in  favor  of   adding  new  laws   but  this                                                               
legislation may  a good new  addition.   He noted that  once this                                                               
new law  has been  established and  the protective  order issued,                                                               
the penalty  is one  year in  jail and  up to  $10,000 fine.   He                                                               
asked whether that  is really what someone needs who  is a danger                                                               
to self or others and whether  that will that satisfy the problem                                                               
this legislation  is trying to  solve by putting someone  in jail                                                               
and fining them up to $10,000.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR answered  that the  provision is  consistent                                                               
with a  class A misdemeanor in  terms of the amount  of jailtime,                                                               
and not  following the  provisions of the  protective order  is a                                                               
class A misdemeanor.  Consequences need  to be in place to ensure                                                               
that  people  will follow  through  with  the provisions  of  the                                                               
protective order issued by the court, she pointed out.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:00:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  noted that there  is a 10-day  notice for                                                               
the respondent to  respond to the person  bringing the protective                                                               
order.  He offered concern that  when dealing with someone who is                                                               
suicidal  or a  danger to  self or  others, wouldn't  that simply                                                               
give the  person 10-days' notice  to either commit suicide  or do                                                               
some other evil  deed.  Also, at the point  this hearing comes up                                                               
might that  not be  a trigger  to get  the person  to a  point of                                                               
decision and carry  out the very thing society does  not want the                                                               
person to accomplish.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR responded  that it  is difficult  to predict                                                               
how any individual  would behave under these  circumstances.  She                                                               
referred to [Sec. 6, AS  18.65.815(b)] page 3, lines 19-26, which                                                               
read as follows:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          (b)  When a  petition  for a  protective order  is                                                                    
     filed, the  court shall schedule a  hearing and provide                                                                    
     at  least 10  days'  notice to  the  respondent of  the                                                                    
     hearing and of the respondent's  right to appear and be                                                                    
     heard, either  in person  or through  an attorney.   If                                                                    
     the court  finds by clear and  convincing evidence that                                                                    
     the  respondent  is  a  danger to  self  or  others  by                                                                    
     possessing,   owning,   purchasing,  or   receiving   a                                                                    
     firearm, regardless  of whether the  respondent appears                                                                    
     at  the  hearing,  the  court   may  order  the  relief                                                                    
     available under  (c) of this  section.   The provisions                                                                    
     of  a protective  order issued  under this  section are                                                                    
     effective for  six months  unless earlier  dissolved by                                                                    
     the court.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR explained that  the hearing provides at least                                                               
10-days' notice to the respondent,  and farther down the page, it                                                               
read as follows:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          (b)  ...  regardless  of  whether  the  respondent                                                                    
     appears at the hearing, the  court may order the relief                                                                    
     available under (c) of this section.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  noted that  if the concern  is, that  if the                                                               
respondent  attended that  hearing,  that  would somehow  trigger                                                               
some other kind of behavior, she  answered that that issue may be                                                               
addressed  through the  above-provision wherein  the hearing  can                                                               
take place  without the  respondent.   In the  event it  was that                                                               
serious,  the petitioner  might  want to  consider  the ex  parte                                                               
order  that could  be addressed  more quickly.   There  are three                                                               
protective orders  set up,  and three  different standards  as to                                                               
the dangerousness  of the respondent,  which is why  she included                                                               
the  language  in   the  table  of  the   handout  depicting  the                                                               
difference.   The  protective orders  begin where  the petitioner                                                               
reasonably  believes  the  respondent  is a  danger  to  self  or                                                               
others;  the ex  parte language  is that  the respondent  poses a                                                               
significant  danger,   which  happens   more  quickly;   and  the                                                               
emergency  order is  that there  is an  immediate danger.   Those                                                               
three options,  hopefully, would  accommodate the  different sets                                                               
of  circumstances relative  to the  concerns of  the respondent's                                                               
behavior, she said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:02:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN  noted that  it  appears  the sponsor  is                                                               
creating an unhappy  medium because there is a  certain amount of                                                               
time  involved which  will not  really help  the situation  where                                                               
someone actually is  a danger to self or others  because there is                                                               
plenty of  time for  them to  be that danger  to self  or others.                                                               
Currently,  he   said,  there  is   a  process   for  involuntary                                                               
commitment which  effectively takes someone's firearms  away from                                                               
them, but this bill does not  go through the rigorousness of that                                                               
process.  He asked how to  resolve the fact that someone is being                                                               
taken through  a legal  process that  is designed  to demonstrate                                                               
that the person is a danger to  self or others, but then they are                                                               
supposed to defend  themselves, yet there would be  a question as                                                               
to whether  they were  competent to stand  in their  own defense.                                                               
He described  that the  sponsor is almost  arguing that  they are                                                               
not competent.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR noted  that  this issue  had been  discussed                                                               
earlier in some of the  examples wherein a person shows different                                                               
signs of mental health challenges  that cause someone concern but                                                               
they  do  not  meet  the   standard  of  involuntary  commitment.                                                               
Perhaps, she advised,  in that circumstance the  family member is                                                               
focused  on getting  them into  a primary  care provider,  having                                                               
assessments performed, determining a  diagnosis, and getting them                                                               
on   medication  if   necessary.     There   are  two   different                                                               
circumstances   Representative  Eastman   is  highlighting,   she                                                               
explained,  where  the  right  outcome  is  that  the  person  is                                                               
appropriately  placed in  a secure  facility,  and another  right                                                               
outcome is that  a secure facility does not  necessarily meet the                                                               
needs  of  the  person  but   given  their  mental  state  it  is                                                               
recognized that  they are  in a  crisis situation  and this  is a                                                               
safety  measure.   Hopefully,  she  said,  it is  a  preventative                                                               
safety measure  and possibly nothing  would happen, but  it gives                                                               
the family member time to  access the person's appropriate health                                                               
care and try to address their needs.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:05:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  how this  legislation  would  work                                                               
mechanically  if more  than one  person lived  in the  household,                                                               
such as  college age students  living together, and  a protective                                                               
order  was issued  against one  of those  students, except  there                                                               
were still many  guns in the house owned by  the other roommates.                                                               
She further  asked whether all  of the  guns "have to  go", which                                                               
appears to  be problematic  for the  other roommates.   Although,                                                               
she questioned, if  everyone's guns could remain,  how could this                                                               
bill work at all under those circumstances.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR   answered  that  it  is   specific  to  the                                                               
respondent  in  this  case  and  only  their  firearms  would  be                                                               
removed.   Under this legislation, only  immediate family members                                                               
or  peace officers  can petition  the court,  and she  would hope                                                               
that if  the immediate family  members are petitioning  the court                                                               
due  to  concerns about  safety  to  self  and others,  that  the                                                               
roommates would take the precautionary  measure of securing their                                                               
firearms so  that individual did  not have access.   The language                                                               
is  specific to  possess,  own,  or receive,  but  only for  that                                                               
particular individual.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:07:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said that  one family member could petition                                                               
the court,  but it does not  necessarily read that the  person is                                                               
living with  that family member.   She said that she  pointed out                                                               
that issue as a mechanical problem.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR responded  that  the bill  can only  address                                                               
lawful  possession  of  firearms  and  if  the  individual  would                                                               
basically be stealing  firearms, whether from a  family member or                                                               
someone  else, that  would be  unlawful possession  because those                                                               
would  be stolen  firearms.    This bill  does  not address  what                                                               
happens in  the circumstance of unlawful  possession, and instead                                                               
addresses the  lawful possession  by that individual  during this                                                               
time of crisis and preventing a gun tragedy.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:08:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP  offered a clarifying  statement as  to [Sec.                                                               
6, 18.65.815(b)] page 3, line 24,  whereas the language is in the                                                               
permissive  in that  "the court  may order  the relief  available                                                               
under (c)  of this section."   He explained that it  provides the                                                               
court flexibility  in innumerable situations of  complexity as to                                                               
how this would  work mechanically.  The courts  are positioned to                                                               
deal with domestic  violence type orders which  are similar, such                                                               
that a  person will  not use  or possess  firearms because  of an                                                               
incident.   It  was his  opinion, he  said, that  as long  as the                                                               
court has  flexibility to address  these situations, it  does not                                                               
stop the purpose of the bill.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:09:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD   referred  to  the   various  terrorist                                                               
attacks and asked how law enforcement  will know where all of the                                                               
guns are located,  whether people turned in all of  their guns to                                                               
law enforcement, and whether this bill is actually a registry.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  answered that this issue  has been discussed                                                               
at length because under this  legislation, if the person does not                                                               
voluntarily  relinquish their  firearms,  a  peace officer  would                                                               
remove  the   guns,  which  is  where   Representative  Eastman's                                                               
question comes in if they  don't follow the lawful order allowing                                                               
removal of those  guns.  She advised that it  will never be known                                                               
whether  every  firearm has  been  removed,  and  this is  not  a                                                               
registry or  an attempt at  creating a registry.   She reiterated                                                               
that she  has been  looking for policy  alternatives that  get to                                                               
the problem and  offer something that would be a  solution.  This                                                               
legislation addresses a  crisis situation but it  is temporary in                                                               
nature  so it  recognizes that  the person  can recover  from the                                                               
crisis and then  take lawful possession of  their firearms again.                                                               
She said  she has not  put forward  a policy creating  a registry                                                               
because  she does  not think  a  registry would  be effective  at                                                               
reducing gun violence, and that is not the intent of the bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[HB 75 was held over.]                                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB075 ver D 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/19/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Sponsor Statement 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Sectional Analysis 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-Washington Post Article - Five States Allow Gun Seizures 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-Washington Post Article - Missouri Case 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-The Trace Article - ERPOs Reduce Suicides 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-Sandy Hook Promise Letter 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-Sandy Hook Promise Letters (Part 1) 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Supporting Document-Public Comment (Part 1) 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/19/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Fact Sheet 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/19/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Fiscal Note DHSS-EPI 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Fiscal Note LAW-CRIM 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Fiscal Note DPS-DET 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Fiscal Note DPS-CJISP 2.28.18.pdf HJUD 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/12/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/14/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 75