Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

03/28/2018 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 93 CREDIT REPORT SECURITY FREEZE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ HB 367 NATIVE CORP. LIABILITY FOR CONTAMINATION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 75 GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
              HB 75-GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:06:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 75, "An  Act relating to gun  violence protective                                                               
orders; relating  to the crime  of violating a  protective order;                                                               
relating to  a central registry  for protective  orders; relating                                                               
to  the  powers of  district  judges  and magistrates;  requiring                                                               
physicians,   psychologists,  psychological   associates,  social                                                               
workers,   marital   and    family   therapists,   and   licensed                                                               
professional  counselors  to  report   annually  threats  of  gun                                                               
violence;  and amending  Rules 4  and 65,  Alaska Rules  of Civil                                                               
Procedure, and Rule 9, Alaska  Rules of Administration."  [Before                                                               
the  committee was  proposed committee  substitute (CS),  Version                                                               
30-LS0304\R,  Martin, 3/26/18,  adopted by  the committee  during                                                               
the 3/26/18, 7:00 p.m. meeting.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:07:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  asked Captain  Dan  Lowden  whether, in  terms  of                                                               
standard  procedure for  state  troopers and  VPSOs,  there is  a                                                               
difference in how domestic violence  protective orders are served                                                               
today,  and  to  describe  the   general  practice  when  serving                                                               
domestic violence protective orders.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:08:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DAN  LOWDEN, Deputy Commander,  Division of  Alaska State                                                               
Troopers,  Department  of  Public  Safety,  responded  that  this                                                               
question is best answered by Sergeant Matthew Hightower.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:09:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW  HIGHTOWER, Sergeant,  Alaska State  Troopers, Department                                                               
of Public  Safety, answered that  there is no  difference between                                                               
how  an Alaska  State  Trooper  and or  a  Village Public  Safety                                                               
Officer (VPSO) would serve a  domestic violence protective order.                                                               
He  explained  that the  domestic  violence  protective order  is                                                               
entered  into  the  Alaska   Public  Safety  Information  Network                                                               
(APSIN) database as well as  its Records Management System (RMS),                                                               
and they serve  the respondent with little delay to  no delay, if                                                               
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:09:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN asked  whether the  department typically  sends one                                                               
state  trooper  or   VPSO  out  to  serve   a  domestic  violence                                                               
protective order, or  whether the service is typically  a team of                                                               
two officers.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HIGHTOWER responded that it  depends upon who is being served                                                               
and  whether the  division has  any prior  knowledge of  possible                                                               
officer  safety concerns.   The  division may  choose to  go with                                                               
more than one or more than  two officers, but typically, he said,                                                               
the order  is served by  either one state trooper,  court service                                                               
officer, or VPSO.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:10:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  asked whether there  is a difference  between rural                                                               
settings and urban settings in  terms of the standard practice of                                                               
the state troopers.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HIGHTOWER   responded  that   there  is  not   a  particular                                                               
difference, although it takes a  bit more time in rural settings.                                                               
Typically,  (indisc.) protective  order in  the same  day and  if                                                               
there is  no VPSO  in the village,  there may be  a delay  in the                                                               
service of  the protective  order due to  air flights  or weather                                                               
delays, and so forth.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:10:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  offered a  scenario  wherein  law enforcement  had                                                               
knowledge that  the respondent being  served a  domestic violence                                                               
protective may  have a firearm,  and he asked how  that knowledge                                                               
would impact practices.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HIGHTOWER asked Chair Claman to clarify his question.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:11:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN asked  whether the  state troopers  assume everyone                                                               
being served a domestic violence  protective order probably has a                                                               
firearm in the house.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HIGHTOWER answered in the affirmative.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:11:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  noted that based  on Mr.  Hightower's understanding                                                               
of CSHB 75, how would a  gun violence protective order compare to                                                               
a domestic violence protective order when serving those orders.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HIGHTOWER  answered that  there would  not be  any difference                                                               
other  than the  actual  document  that is  being  served on  the                                                               
respondent.    He  added  that  the  state  troopers  follow  the                                                               
provisions of the protective order  and remove any property under                                                               
that order.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:12:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  asked the frequency  that state troopers  and VPSOs                                                               
are  involved  in  serving domestic  violence  protective  orders                                                               
currently.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HIGHTOWER deferred to Captain Dan Lowden.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:12:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN answered  that in  2017, 1,360  domestic violence                                                               
protective orders  were served,  and the state  troopers received                                                               
approximately  1,937 requests.   As  to the  stalking orders,  he                                                               
advised  that 265  protective  orders were  served,  "and we  had                                                               
received  an additional  66 orders  for a  total of  344 stalking                                                               
orders received in 2017."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:13:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN requested a description  of the Department of Public                                                               
Safety's (DPS) policy regarding the storage of weapons.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN  responded that  the process  for taking  a weapon                                                               
into custody is as follows: the  serial number is run through the                                                               
state and national databases to  determine whether the weapon was                                                               
stolen; and  all information regarding  that weapon  is recorded,                                                               
such as, the make, model,  caliber, barrel length, serial number,                                                               
and so  forth.  Under  the right circumstances, he  explained, if                                                               
the  person "is  there" and  the state  troopers know  the owner,                                                               
they would probably give the person  a receipt for the weapon "if                                                               
we  had  it in  our  custody,  but not  all  of  the time."    He                                                               
continued explaining  the storage of weapons  process as follows:                                                               
after  returning to  the  office  with the  weapon,  it would  be                                                               
packaged in specially  designed boxes for the  storage of weapons                                                               
in  the evidence  room, enter  that weapon  into the  RMS system,                                                               
list it with the associated incident  number, and place it in the                                                               
evidence locker for storage.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:15:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN asked that if  this legislation becomes law, whether                                                               
the state troopers  would have enough storage  capacity to manage                                                               
the  weapons storage  that  may be  required  under gun  violence                                                               
protection orders.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN  answered  that the  difficulty  in  pinning  the                                                               
number  down to  a  definitive answer  is  that this  legislation                                                               
moves into new  territory and the number of weapons  to expect is                                                               
unknown,  but  storage  is  at  capacity in  many  of  the  rural                                                               
evidence lockers.   Different commanders  have advised,  he said,                                                               
that  they are  using alternative  storage for  items already  in                                                               
storage, and  the Bethel  State Troopers are  using one  of their                                                               
holding  cells to  store firearms.   He  opined that  it probably                                                               
would not  take many  weapons for  the division  to look  at some                                                               
sort of alternative storage capacity in handling the weapons.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:16:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN surmised  that it would depend on the  number of gun                                                               
violence  protective  orders  which   were  served  in  one  year                                                               
statewide,  as  to the  different  management  problems it  would                                                               
create.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN replied  that  Chair Claman  was  correct, it  is                                                               
based on the number of  protective orders received and the number                                                               
of weapons a particular person may  possess.  He opined that many                                                               
folks in Alaska probably own dozens or scores of weapons.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:16:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN asked whether the  provision allowing custody of the                                                               
weapons  by  a  court  approved third-party  would  provide  some                                                               
relief for the potential storage use issues.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN   LOWDEN  answered   that   court  approved   third-party                                                               
possession of the weapons could  possibly assist, except it would                                                               
be difficult  for a person  to obtain court  approved third-party                                                               
possession within  the 48-hour time period,  or the instantaneous                                                               
seizure under the ex parte  order.  Although, he acknowledged, it                                                               
would still be  helpful for a court approved  third-party to come                                                               
forward and take the weapons into  their custody within a week or                                                               
two weeks of the seizure.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:18:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  requested  information  as to  whether  the  state                                                               
troopers  or VPSOs  are involved  in the  warrantless seizure  of                                                               
weapons from individuals.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN  responded  that  weapons are  seized  without  a                                                               
warrant  under  several  conditions   and  exemptions,  such  as:                                                               
whether there  are existent circumstances  to the  search warrant                                                               
rules;  a weapon  in plain  sight, such  that the  state troopers                                                               
make contact with  someone and a weapon is sitting  on the coffee                                                               
table; weapons  visible via gun  racks in pickup trucks  would be                                                               
seized; and a pat down search  revealing a weapon.  Under current                                                               
law, a person must notify  the police officer during contact that                                                               
they are  carrying a  concealed weapon and  allow the  officer to                                                               
secure the  weapon if they so  desire during the contact,  in the                                                               
event something arose  that caused the police  officer concern or                                                               
the person was  arrested, the weapon would not  be returned under                                                               
this  legislation.   Normally, on  routine  contacts, the  weapon                                                               
would  be given  right  back to  the  person at  the  scene.   He                                                               
reiterated that  there are  several ways  within which  the state                                                               
troopers seize weapons without a warrant.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:20:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN  offered  a   scenario  where  the  state                                                               
troopers encountered an individual who  had not committed a crime                                                               
but was  in possession of a  weapon and it was  not advisable for                                                               
that person  to continue  possessing that  weapon.   He requested                                                               
the authority  or justification  used to  secure that  weapon and                                                               
keep  it for  a  period of  time after  making  contact with  the                                                               
person and the call was over.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN  opined  that  there  is not  a  lot  of  statute                                                               
authority to keep weapons under  that description.  He noted that                                                               
"very  narrowly"  if  there  was   concern  about  that  person's                                                               
wellbeing  to  the  point  of  a Title  47  commitment  and  were                                                               
hospitalized for  a 72-hour observation,  the situation  might be                                                               
such  that  the  state  troopers  would  secure  the  weapon  for                                                               
safekeeping at the  scene, "because there's no one  there to hand                                                               
it off to."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:22:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  requested a description of  why receipts                                                               
are sometimes  given or not given  to the person, and  whether it                                                               
is difficult to return the seized weapon back to the owner.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN replied that when  receipts are given or not given                                                               
to folks depends upon the situation,  and at some point, a person                                                               
would most likely be given a  receipt.  There may be a situation,                                                               
he  offered, where  a person  and their  weapons were  taken into                                                               
custody, and  the state trooper  would book the person  into jail                                                               
before the  person would receive  a receipt  for the weapon.   In                                                               
the  event a  search  warrant is  served on  a  house, the  state                                                               
troopers are required  to leave a receipt for all  of the removed                                                               
items  at  that  time.     He  reiterated  that  the  receipt  is                                                               
situationally dependent and it is  not a question of choosing not                                                               
to  give   someone  a  receipt,   it  simply  depends   upon  the                                                               
circumstances.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:23:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD offered concern  that not giving a person                                                               
a receipt for  their guns depends upon  the situation, especially                                                               
in warrantless  cases under  this bill.   She  noted that  no one                                                               
wants  guns in  the  wrong hands,  but  the constitution  clearly                                                               
states  that people  have  the right  to bear  arms.   She  asked                                                               
Captain Lowden's  opinion as  to how  state troopers  can justify                                                               
confiscating   those   guns   after  swearing   to   uphold   the                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN,  in response  to  Captain  Lowden, explained  that                                                               
Representative  Reinbold's  question  is about  Second  Amendment                                                               
rights and how Captain Lowden  addresses that issue when making a                                                               
decision to seize weapons.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN answered that the  constitutionality of any law is                                                               
decided  by the  courts.   The state  troopers receive  direction                                                               
through the  attorney general, and  at this time  he is not  in a                                                               
position to  advise Representative  Reinbold what  those opinions                                                               
might be regarding this legislation.   He commented that he knows                                                               
the Department of Law reviewed this bill.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN interjected  that Representative Reinbold's question                                                               
was  not   specific  to  this   bill,  but  broadly   related  to                                                               
warrantless  seizures  and  taking  possession of  a  firearm  in                                                               
general.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:26:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  whether Captain  Lowden takes  an                                                               
oath to defend and uphold the constitution.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  remarked that Captain  Lowden does take an  oath to                                                               
defend and uphold  the constitution, and he could  respond to the                                                               
question about seizing weapons without a warrant.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN  reiterated  that  there are  exceptions  to  the                                                               
search  warrant requirement,  and circumstances  where the  state                                                               
troopers might  remove a  weapon from a  person without  a search                                                               
warrant.   For example,  he further  reiterated, when  locating a                                                               
weapon on a person  during a pat down; at the  time of arrest; or                                                               
when the weapon is in plain  view; the state troopers are allowed                                                               
to seize the weapon at that time.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:27:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP  asked Captain Lowden to  explain the process                                                               
of  entering  a  weapon  into (indisc.)  for  safekeeping  or  as                                                               
evidence,  what  forms  are  used,   whether  the  forms  are  in                                                               
triplicate,  and whether  the  state troopers  can  always get  a                                                               
receipt back to someone after the fact.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN  responded that it has  been a long time  since he                                                               
worked the street and the  state troopers now have a computerized                                                               
RMS,  but  he  would  attempt  to  answer  Representative  Kopp's                                                               
question.  In his day, he  said, physical paper forms with carbon                                                               
paper were used  to document the seizure.   Currently, he pointed                                                               
out, there  are computer systems  and some,  if not most,  of the                                                               
troopers  have printers  in their  cars to  print out  documents.                                                               
Unfortunately  for  many  troopers,  especially  those  in  rural                                                               
Alaska, they do not have instant  access to that sort of portable                                                               
technology and  the ability  to print a  receipt at  that moment.                                                               
He explained that the data  would be entered through the computer                                                               
system with  the serial number,  make, model, barrel  length, and                                                               
so forth,  and the paper is  copied at that point  for the person                                                               
to use as a  receipt, or for the use of any  number of people who                                                               
would receive that copy.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:29:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP referred  to the rural areas  of Alaska where                                                               
technology is more limited, and  he asked whether those areas are                                                               
more likely to have the  previously described property forms that                                                               
list the  barrel length, serial  number, caliber, and all  of the                                                               
identifying blocks  listed on the  property forms to fill  out in                                                               
pen.  He asked whether Captain  Lowden was saying that those have                                                               
been done away with entirely                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN  responded that he  was unaware whether  the folks                                                               
in  rural Alaska  are using  paper as  a backup  and deferred  to                                                               
Captain Andrew Merrill.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:30:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  ANDREW  MERRILL,  Division   of  Village  Public  Safety                                                               
Officers  (VPSO), Alaska  State  Troopers,  Department of  Public                                                               
Safety,  responded that  currently, VPSOs  and state  troopers in                                                               
Western  Alaska  have access  to  the  records management  system                                                               
(RMS) and  that information  is input  directly into  the system.                                                               
As to the issue of receipts,  he related that it depends upon the                                                               
officer at the scene who views  the firearm and whether they have                                                               
access to  any hard-copy  forms.   Although, he  is not  aware of                                                               
troopers carrying  hard-copy triplicate  forms or other  forms to                                                               
give to a person.  Many times,  he explained, it is simply a note                                                               
in  their  notebook  describing the  property  seized,  and  some                                                               
troopers  will rip  a notebook  page out,  describe the  property                                                               
seized, and  the trooper and  individual will sign  the document.                                                               
He  related  that a  receipt  depends  upon the  availability  of                                                               
computers, of paper,  and the time of day or  night, as there are                                                               
many  variables  impacting  how  a  receipt  is  provided  to  an                                                               
individual.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:31:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP  referred  to  the  warrantless  seizure  of                                                               
firearms  and  offered  a  scenario   where  the  state  troopers                                                               
responded to a  residence or business where a crime  had not been                                                               
committed, but  the state  troopers encounter  an angry  or upset                                                               
individual  with a  weapon  under their  immediate  control.   He                                                               
asked Captain  Lowden to describe circumstances  where the weapon                                                               
may be seized for safekeeping  until that situation is, at least,                                                               
stabilized.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  LOWDEN answered  that there  may be  circumstances where                                                               
the state  troopers receive a  call that someone  was threatening                                                               
to cause harm to self, or  they were distraught and in possession                                                               
of a weapon,  the weapon would be seized for  safekeeping for the                                                               
safety of  everyone at the  time.   Although, he said,  the state                                                               
troopers try to  keep that situation to a minimum  and they would                                                               
look  for a  possible family  member [to  take possession  of the                                                               
weapon] or some other way to keep everyone safe.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:33:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  offered a  scenario of someone  writing on                                                               
Facebook, "I am  really mad at the  world.  I think  I'm going to                                                               
go into a  school and start shooting people."   She asked whether                                                               
that person  would be taken  into custody and their  guns seized,                                                               
or  move for  an involuntary  commitment, or  what, if  anything,                                                               
would Captain Lowden do currently.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN reiterated  that it has been a long  time since he                                                               
worked the  street, but  he wants  to make  clear that  the state                                                               
troopers are not out there  monitoring people's Facebook pages at                                                               
random.  In the event someone  brought this post to the attention                                                               
of the state troopers, they would  make an effort to make contact                                                               
the  person and  through interviewing  the person,  their family,                                                               
their friends, and so forth,  gather an understanding of what was                                                               
going  on  with  that  person   and  why  they  made  that  post.                                                               
Currently, in the event the  situation was such that the troopers                                                               
believed someone was  a danger to self or others,  and may suffer                                                               
from  some mental  difficulties, the  troopers would  move for  a                                                               
Title 47 commitment  to have that person taken to  a facility for                                                               
evaluation.   As to whether the  weapons would be seized  at that                                                               
point would depend upon the  circumstances and the situation.  In                                                               
the event the situation was such  that the person was living with                                                               
other  family  members and  those  family  members convinced  the                                                               
troopers  that  they  could properly  secure  the  firearms,  the                                                               
troopers may  very well look at  all of the options  and possibly                                                               
leave the  firearms with a  family member.   The first  thing the                                                               
troopers would  do is find the  person and try to  determine what                                                               
was actually taking place, he reiterated.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:36:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX described  that not  all people  who shoot                                                               
other people  necessarily have a  mental illness, they  are quite                                                               
sane and  are simply  bad people.   She  asked Captain  Lowden to                                                               
describe the  process for someone  who the troopers  believe will                                                               
probably shoot someone except they  are not mentally ill and they                                                               
have not yet committed a crime.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN   LOWDEN   said   that   he   believes   he   understands                                                               
Representative LeDoux's question, but  where he might depart from                                                               
Representative  LeDoux is  that most  likely a  crime would  have                                                               
been committed.  He paraphrased an Alaska law, as follows:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     A prohibited act of threatening bodily harm to people                                                                      
     with dangerous instruments.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN  explained that "You  don't actually have  to hurt                                                               
them,  you  don't have  to  shoot  at  them,  or those  sorts  of                                                               
things," but  there is the ability  to make an arrest  and charge                                                               
someone for making threats to harm other people.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:38:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  said that she  assumes the threat  to harm                                                               
someone is that  if she wrote on her Facebook  page, for example,                                                               
"I'm going  to shoot Representative Eastman,"  and Representative                                                               
Eastman saw  that Facebook post, and  it was a threat  to someone                                                               
specifically.   She  then  offered that  there  is a  generalized                                                               
post, "I don't like the world.   I'm just going to out and kill a                                                               
few people" which is not a  threat to shoot anyone in particular,                                                               
and the  person they  shoot may  not even see  this threat.   She                                                               
asked whether those scenarios would come under this statute.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN LOWDEN  opined that  it probably  would [come  under this                                                               
statute]  depending  upon  what  the words  were  and  the  other                                                               
actions  the person  took to  communicate that  threat.   He said                                                               
that he does not believe it  has a requirement that the threat be                                                               
made  against a  specific person,  but rather  the circumstances.                                                               
He related  that he is  not suggesting  that the people  who make                                                               
these threats are  posting in a light manner, such  as the people                                                               
who make  stupid comments in the  TSA line and are  pulled out of                                                               
line  immediately  and  questioned  about their  comments.    The                                                               
threat  needs to  be to  a specific  person, he  stated, but  the                                                               
state troopers  would have to look  at the totality of  the whole                                                               
situation and, as in many cases,  the troopers would have to make                                                               
a judgement call on whether that behavior was criminal.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX asked  Chair Claman  whether someone  from                                                               
the  criminal division  of the  attorney  general's office  could                                                               
address that question.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN advised  that her  request could  not be  addressed                                                               
today  because  the committee  was  moving  to other  bills,  and                                                               
suggested  that  the following  cites  may  address many  of  the                                                               
issues Captain Lowden addressed, as follows:                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
       AS 11.56.807. Terroristic Threatening in the First                                                                     
     Degree.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          (a)  A person  commits  the  crime of  terroristic                                                                    
     threatening  in   the  first   degree  if   the  person                                                                    
     knowingly   sends   or  delivers   a   bacteriological,                                                                    
     biological, chemical,  or radiological substance  or an                                                                    
     imitation  bacteriological,  biological,  chemical,  or                                                                    
     radiological substance and, as a result,                                                                                   
               (1)  places a  person in  reasonable fear  of                                                                    
     physical injury to any person;                                                                                             
               (2) causes  evacuation of a  building, public                                                                    
     place  or area,  business premises,  or mode  of public                                                                    
     transportation; or                                                                                                         
               (3) causes serious public inconvenience.                                                                         
          (b) In this section,                                                                                                  
               (1)  "bacteriological, biological,  chemical,                                                                    
     or  radiological substance"  means a  material that  is                                                                    
     capable of causing serious physical injury;                                                                                
               (2)  "imitation bacteriological,  biological,                                                                    
     chemical, or  radiological substance" means  a material                                                                    
     that by  its appearance would lead  a reasonable person                                                                    
     to  believe  that  it is  capable  of  causing  serious                                                                    
     physical injury.                                                                                                           
          (c)  Terroristic threatening  in the  first degree                                                                    
     is a class B felony.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     AS  11.56.810. Terroristic  Threatening  in the  Second                                                                  
     Degree.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
          (a)  A person  commits  the  crime of  terroristic                                                                    
     threatening  in   the  second  degree  if   the  person                                                                    
     knowingly makes a false report that a circumstance                                                                         
               (1)  dangerous to  human  life  exists or  is                                                                    
     about to exist and                                                                                                         
                    (A)  a person  is  placed in  reasonable                                                                    
     fear of physical injury to any person;                                                                                     
                    (B)  causes  evacuation of  a  building,                                                                    
     public  place or  area, business  premises, or  mode of                                                                    
     public transportation;                                                                                                     
                    (C)      causes      serious      public                                                                    
     inconvenience; or                                                                                                          
                    (D)   the    report   claims    that   a                                                                    
     bacteriological, biological,  chemical, or radiological                                                                    
     substance that  is capable of causing  serious physical                                                                    
     injury  has been  sent  or is  present  in a  building,                                                                    
     public  place or  area, business  premises, or  mode of                                                                    
     public transportation; or                                                                                                  
               (2)  exists  or is  about  to  exist that  is                                                                    
     dangerous to the  proper or safe functioning  of an oil                                                                    
     or  gas pipeline  or supporting  facility, utility,  or                                                                    
     transportation  or cargo  facility; in  this paragraph,                                                                    
     "oil  or  gas  pipeline and  supporting  facility"  and                                                                    
     "utility" have the meanings given in AS 11.46.495 .                                                                        
          (b) Terrorist threatening in  the second degree is                                                                    
     a class C felony.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[HB 75 was held over.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
              HB 75-GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:50:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN   announced  that  the  House   Judiciary  Standing                                                               
Committee would  return to discussions  regarding HOUSE  BILL NO.                                                               
75, "An Act relating to  gun violence protective orders; relating                                                               
to  the crime  of violating  a  protective order;  relating to  a                                                               
central registry  for protective  orders; relating to  the powers                                                               
of  district   judges  and  magistrates;   requiring  physicians,                                                               
psychologists, psychological associates,  social workers, marital                                                               
and family  therapists, and  licensed professional  counselors to                                                               
report annually  threats of  gun violence;  and amending  Rules 4                                                               
and  65, Alaska  Rules of  Civil  Procedure, and  Rule 9,  Alaska                                                               
Rules of Administration."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN noted that Representative  LeDoux had requested that                                                               
a  representative  from  the  Department   of  Law  (DOL)  answer                                                               
questions related  to someone posting  on Facebook that  they are                                                               
angry and wants to cause serious  harm, and then goes to a school                                                               
and shoots  some folks,  wherein for  purposes of  this question,                                                               
there was  no basis  for a  Title 47  hold.   In that  regard, he                                                               
asked  Kaci  Schroeder, DOL,  to  come  forward and  explain  the                                                               
options the  police or  the state troopers  would have,  and what                                                               
crimes they might be able to arrest someone for in that setting.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:51:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KACI  SCHROEDER, Assistant  Attorney General,  Criminal Division,                                                               
Legal Services  Section, Department of Law,  responded that there                                                               
are  several statutes  the  DOL  can look  at  when dealing  with                                                               
someone  making  threatening  types of  statements,  as  follows:                                                               
assault,  wherein  someone  makes,  by words  or  other  conduct,                                                               
threatens  someone  and  they  are  potentially  in  fear  of  an                                                               
assault, which  is assault in  the fourth degree;  and harassment                                                               
in the  second degree is  probably most applicable to  the above-                                                               
hypothetical   circumstances   offered  wherein   someone   posts                                                               
something on line  about perhaps shooting up a  school or causing                                                               
other damage.  Recently, she  advised, the DOL prosecuted someone                                                               
for posting on another person's  Facebook page, "You are going to                                                               
get assassinated."  She explained  that the person was prosecuted                                                               
under the harassment in the second-degree statute.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:53:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  clarified that  she was discussing  a more                                                               
generalized  post  that did  not  list  the school,  and  instead                                                               
posted that they were mad at the  world and were going to blow up                                                               
some people.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  answered that the DOL  would look at that  type of                                                               
posting  on  a  sliding  scale   type  of  analysis.    The  more                                                               
generalized the statement, the harder it  would be for the DOL to                                                               
prosecute  as a  crime.   The more  specific it  is and  the more                                                               
imminent  it  reads  to  be,   the  better  chance  there  is  of                                                               
prosecuting it as a crime.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  surmised that under her  scenario, the DOL                                                               
"would not do anything."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  described Representative LeDoux scenario  as "very                                                               
general," and that  is not to say the DOL  would not do anything.                                                               
The department  may use  that scenario  as a  reason to  begin an                                                               
investigation  into the  person to  determine whether  the person                                                               
plans to  take steps in furtherance  of their statement.   In the                                                               
event the  discussion is about  a student in a  school situation,                                                               
the  schools can  also  take  steps, such  as  suspension and  so                                                               
forth,  that are  short of  criminal actions,  she explained.   A                                                               
wide range of steps can be  taken, short of criminal action, when                                                               
someone is making threatening statements, she offered.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:54:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX stressed that  her previous comment was not                                                               
meant as a  criticism.  Representative LeDoux  explained that she                                                               
was  trying to  determine  whether this  bill  was necessary,  or                                                               
whether, under current  law, when someone is  angry and threatens                                                               
to "go  and murder ten  people," they  can be arrested  and their                                                               
weapons removed.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  responded that based  on that statement  alone and                                                               
nothing else took place, it would be difficult to prosecute.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:55:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  noted that  under this bill,  weapons can                                                               
be seized,  and asked what the  process would be if  the owner of                                                               
the  weapons   dies  while   those  weapons   are  held   by  law                                                               
enforcement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  answered that  she could  not answer  the question                                                               
because  she has  not thought  through to  the death  of someone,                                                               
which gets into disposal of property.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN commented that it sounds like an estate matter.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:56:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN   remarked  that  he   became  familiar   with  the                                                               
terroristic  threatening  statutes  in   the  early  1990s  while                                                               
involved in a  criminal case wherein someone was  charged for the                                                               
direct threat of words or conduct.   Subsequent to his citing the                                                               
terroristic  threatening statutes  to the  committee today  and a                                                               
conversation with Ms. Schroeder  regarding the current version of                                                               
the terroristic  threatening statutes,  he said that  he realized                                                               
the defendant, while speaking to  another person on the telephone                                                               
and clicking their  pen next to the telephone to  replicate a gun                                                               
being opened and closed, would not be charged today under the                                                                   
terroristic threatening statutes.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
[HB 75 was held over.]                                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB093 ver O 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/30/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
SB093 Sponsor Statement 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/30/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
SB093 Sectional Analysis ver O 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
SB093 Supporting Documents 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
SB093 Fiscal Note LAW-CIV 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
HB367 ver A 3.28.18.PDF HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Sponsor Statement 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Sectional Analysis ver A 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-ANCSA-CONTAMINATED-LAND_Congress 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-Inventory of ANCSA Contaminated Lands 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-HRES ANVCA Contaminated Lands Presentation 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-October 2016 ATCEM ANCSA 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-1998 Report to Congress ANSCA Contaminated Lands 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-2016 Report to Congress ANSCA Contaminated Lands 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-US Senate Bill 822 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Supporting Document-Letters 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
HB367 Fiscal Note DEC-SPAR 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 367
SB093 PowerPoint Presentation 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 93
HB075 Work Draft Committee Substitute ver R 3.26.18.pdf HJUD 3/26/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/28/2018 7:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Sectional Analysis ver R 3.26.18.pdf HJUD 3/26/2018 7:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/28/2018 7:00:00 PM
HB 75
HB075 Additional Document-Firearm Injuries in Alaska, 2009-2015 3.28.18.pdf HJUD 3/28/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 3/28/2018 7:00:00 PM
HB 75