Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/07/2003 03:15 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB  15-TELEMARKETERS NO-CALL LISTS                                                                                            
Number 0505                                                                                                                     
CHAIR ANDERSON  said the  next order of  business was  HOUSE BILL                                                               
NO.  15, "An  Act  relating to  establishing  the Alaska  No-Call                                                               
List, a data  base of residential telephone customers  who do not                                                               
wish  to receive  telephonic  solicitations;  providing that  the                                                               
data  base be  compiled at  no cost  to the  customers; requiring                                                               
paid  telephonic sellers  to purchase  the  data base;  requiring                                                               
telephonic sellers  to identify themselves;  requiring telephonic                                                               
solicitors  who   are  otherwise  exempt  from   registration  as                                                               
telephonic  solicitors to  file with  the Department  of Law  and                                                               
purchase the data base; and providing for an effective date."                                                                   
CHAIR ANDERSON  noted that the  sponsor of  HB 15 has  provided a                                                               
revised version of the bill for the committee's consideration.                                                                  
Number 0516                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  moved  to   adopt  the  proposed  committee                                                               
substitute (CS)  for HB 15, Version  23-LS0058\D, Craver, 2/4/03,                                                               
as the working document.                                                                                                        
Number 0537                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                  
Number 0550                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HUGH  FATE, Alaska  State Legislature,  as sponsor                                                               
of  HB 15,  described the  key points  of his  proposed CS.   The                                                               
Alaska No-Call List creates a  data base of residential telephone                                                               
customers  who do  not wish  to receive  telephone solicitations.                                                               
Some  of  those  solicitations  are intended  to  defraud  senior                                                               
citizens.   There is no  cost to  register a telephone  number on                                                               
the list.   A telemarketer must purchase the no-call  list from a                                                               
designated agent of  the Department of Law.   The department will                                                               
write the regulations  and establish the fees for  the data base.                                                               
He said  this will begin  the process of  eliminating unsolicited                                                               
phone calls.                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  stated   that  nonprofit  corporations  can                                                               
[register  with] the  Department of  Law, allowing  them to  make                                                               
telephone solicitations.  The fiscal  note from the Department of                                                               
Law is about  $140,000 for the start-up year and  $120,000 in the                                                               
following years.   This program  is modeled after  Colorado's No-                                                               
Call List  law.  At  present time,  the Colorado No-call  list is                                                               
taking in more revenue than needed to break even.                                                                               
Number 0770                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked  how the Department of  Law will handle                                                               
waivers   for   nonprofit    corporations   that   advocate   for                                                               
controversial  social issues  and solicit  contributions.   Would                                                               
the department decide  which advocacy group could  call and which                                                               
could not?                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  replied that  the  Department  of Law  will                                                               
develop regulations for  the program.  He said  if the department                                                               
determines that the  nonprofit agency [is a  charity], then there                                                               
is no cost for the no-call  list.  He added that solicitation for                                                               
information, as in a telephone  poll, is treated differently than                                                               
a commercial enterprise selling goods over the phone.                                                                           
Number 960                                                                                                                      
JIM  POUND,  Staff  to Representative  Hugh  Fate,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  clarified  that  "nonprofits are  not  included  in                                                               
this; this is strictly for paid solicitors."                                                                                    
Number 0985                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  asked  how a  person  could  complain                                                               
about an overly aggressive nonprofit organization seeking money.                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   FATE  said   that  HB   15  includes   complaint                                                               
MR. POUND answered a question  from Representative Crawford about                                                               
whether third  parties hired by  nonprofits would be  required to                                                               
buy the no-call  list.  He said yes, such  a solicitor would have                                                               
to  buy  the  no-call  list.    He  confirmed  that  a  nonprofit                                                               
organization which  uses its own  members to solicit  funds would                                                               
not be required to buy the no-call list.                                                                                        
Number 1126                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO asked  who owns  the no-call  list and  are                                                               
there protections to  prevent a business from  reselling the list                                                               
to other companies.                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  replied that  the State  of Alaska  owns the                                                               
list, and the list may not be resold.                                                                                           
Number 1173                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO asked  whether e-mails  soliciting business                                                               
received over a phone line [or cable] are covered by this bill.                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE FATE replied that  the Alaska No-Call List applies                                                               
to  telephone calls  and fax  [facsimile]  transmissions and  but                                                               
doesn't cover e-mails.                                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  clarified that  this bill does  not stop                                                               
spam [unsolicited commercial e-mails].                                                                                          
CHAIR  ANDERSON   explained  that  electronic  mail   is  defined                                                               
separately from telephone solicitations.                                                                                        
Number 1400                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  asked how the Alaska  No-Call List will                                                               
be maintained  and through which  department's budget.   She also                                                               
asked how  the list  will be protected  from illegal  copying and                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  explained the Department of  Law fiscal note                                                               
outlines  the cost  of starting  and maintaining  the data  base.                                                               
The department will decide how frequently the list is updated.                                                                  
MR. POUND said the issue  of unauthorized distribution of the no-                                                               
call list  needs to  be tightened  up either in  the bill  or the                                                               
regulations.  The  original version of the bill  allowed the list                                                               
to be  freely distributed,  which he  said, undermined  the sales                                                               
revenue of the list.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE FATE said the security of  the data base is of the                                                               
utmost importance.   He answered  a question  from Representative                                                               
Rokeberg about which list  will be sold.  It will  be list of do-                                                               
not-call phone numbers, rather than  a list of okay-to-call phone                                                               
Number 1650                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  a telemarketer  will have  to take                                                               
the Alaska No-Call List and create  a new do-call phone list.  He                                                               
asked if HB 15 contains  a prohibition against a company creating                                                               
a secondary market  by compiling and selling a  do-call-list.  He                                                               
asked how frequently the no-call list will be updated.                                                                          
MR. POUND replied  that anyone getting a license  to do telephone                                                               
solicitation must prove that they have purchased the Alaska No-                                                                 
Call List.  The Department of  Law will decide how frequently the                                                               
data base should be updated; it  may be every month when the data                                                               
base is first compiled.                                                                                                         
Number 1757                                                                                                                     
ED SNIFFEN,  Assistant Attorney General, Fair  Business Practices                                                               
Section,   Civil  Division   (Anchorage),   Department  of   Law,                                                               
testified  that the  updates on  the data  base must  be done  at                                                               
least once a year,  as noted on page 3, lines  23-27 of the bill.                                                               
He  answered  a  question   from  Representative  Rokeberg  about                                                               
whether there  is a  prohibition against  creating and  selling a                                                               
do-call list.   Mr. Sniffen  explained that nothing  prevents the                                                               
black  market sale  of do-call  lists.   But telemarketers  still                                                               
have to  register with the  state's agent and prove  that they've                                                               
purchased the no-call data base.                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked about the current  charge by phone                                                               
companies for  customers who request  a black dot by  their names                                                               
in  a   phone  book  [indicating   a  preference  for   no  phone                                                               
solicitations under AS 45.50.475].                                                                                              
MR.  SNIFFEN  said  the  cost  varies from  area  to  area.    In                                                               
Anchorage,  the charge  is a  one-time fee  of $5;  in Juneau  it                                                               
costs $10-$12; in other places, there is no charge.                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  said this bill  does not affect  the present                                                               
"black dot" systems used by the telephone utilities.                                                                            
Number 1890                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  expressed  concern about  the  size  of                                                               
Department of  Law's fiscal  note.  He  asked whether  the public                                                               
should help  pay for  the cost  of this  service.   He encouraged                                                               
Representative Fate to  get a more conservative  fiscal note from                                                               
the Department of Law.                                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE FATE replied that the  success of the Colorado no-                                                               
call list, upon  which Alaska's bill is based,  encouraged him to                                                               
anticipate a break-even budget within a few years.                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  said she has worked  for companies that                                                               
buy  telephone   solicitation  lists,  and  she   said  they  are                                                               
accustomed to paying  for such a list.   She asked Representative                                                               
Fate whether  he anticipated any  problems getting  updated lists                                                               
of disconnected or reassigned phone  numbers from local telephone                                                               
exchange carriers.   She asked whether  directory assistance will                                                               
give out the phone number of a person using a black dot.                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE replied  that  it's up  to  the consumer  to                                                               
contact  the  State's agent  about  adding  or changing  a  phone                                                               
number.   He said  he could  not answer  questions about  how the                                                               
phone companies' black dot systems work.                                                                                        
Number 2162                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  stated that when he  sponsored a similar                                                               
bill last  session, he spoke  to three companies that  handle no-                                                               
call lists [in  other states].  Those vendors told  him that they                                                               
continuously  updated their  no-call  lists.   In  his bill  last                                                               
session, the Department  of Law set the fee for  the no-call list                                                               
at $750 in order to cover all administrative costs.                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  asked how the department  would handle                                                               
the out-of-state telemarketer who circumvents the law.                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD pointed out in  HB 15 how solicitors must                                                               
state  their names  and phone  numbers.   Representative Crawford                                                               
said in  Louisiana [where there's  a similar law], it  was widely                                                               
publicized that  each merchant must  state these facts,  and that                                                               
consumers  should beware  of solicitors  who  don't provide  this                                                               
Number 2228                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO   commented    how   easily   unscrupulous                                                               
telemarketers will  be able  to circumvent  the provisions  of HB
15.   He  said that  current vendors  supply political  campaigns                                                               
with  thousands of  names  for $40;  he  questioned whether  that                                                               
vendor would  purchase an  Alaska No-Call  List for  $750.   As a                                                               
result, he  said he thinks  the true administrative costs  of the                                                               
program will balloon.                                                                                                           
Number 2320                                                                                                                     
MR. SNIFFEN  noted that  HB 15 falls  under the  state's consumer                                                               
protection Act [AS 45.50.471-561],  which would subject violators                                                               
to  fines of  up  to $5,000  per violation.    Violations of  the                                                               
telephone solicitation act [AS 45.63]  are class C felonies.  The                                                               
Department  of  Law would  try  to  locate these  savvy  thieves,                                                               
prosecute them, and get restitution.                                                                                            
TAPE 03-6, SIDE B                                                                                                             
Number 2350                                                                                                                     
MR.  SNIFFEN  said   that  there's  no  way   to  stop  unethical                                                               
solicitors,  but it's  still  important  to notify  telemarketers                                                               
about the Alaska No-Call List  and to educate consumers about how                                                               
to avoid scams.  The department  can only spend so many resources                                                               
chasing  down people  in  other countries  who  are making  phone                                                               
calls to Alaska.                                                                                                                
MR. SNIFFEN  responded to a  query from  Representative Rokeberg,                                                               
agreeing that  citizens have the  right to bring a  private cause                                                               
of action against a company that defrauds them.                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  answered  a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Dahlstrom, saying that  a telemarketer in Alaska  needs an Alaska                                                               
business license to conduct business in state.                                                                                  
Number 2282                                                                                                                     
MARIE  DARLIN,  Coordinator,  Capital   City  Task  Force,  AARP,                                                               
testified in  favor of HB 15.   She said the  AARP numbers 71,000                                                               
members in  Alaska, and the  task force  includes representatives                                                               
from other  senior and retiree  organizations that have  the same                                                               
concerns.   She pointed  out the [February  2, 2003]  AARP letter                                                               
that  supported HB  15 and  was  included in  each member's  bill                                                               
packet.  The initial work on  this bill was done last legislative                                                               
session.   The  Federal Trade  Commission (FTC)  is revising  its                                                               
telemarketing   rules,  but   the  changes   will  depend   on  a                                                               
Congressional   appropriation.     These  rules   won't  regulate                                                               
interstate calls.   She said  many other states have  do-not call                                                               
lists, and  it behooves Alaska to  take this step.   She said the                                                               
FTC rule will not take precedence  over state law.  She urged the                                                               
committee members  to take  action to get  rid of  these unwanted                                                               
phone  calls and  fraudulent operations  that target  seniors and                                                               
Number 2166                                                                                                                     
ROSALEE  WALKER, Older  Persons  Action  Group (OPAG),  explained                                                               
that  her  group  is  ancillary  to [a  grantee  of]  the  Alaska                                                               
Commission  on Aging.   She  noted  that she  supported the  AARP                                                               
letter [referenced by  Ms. Darlin] and worked with  the AARP last                                                               
session on  the no-call  list.   She commented  that unscrupulous                                                               
people will  always find  loopholes in  the law.   She  urged the                                                               
committee to act  on HB 15, and to consider  this bill a work-in-                                                               
progress that may need future amendments.                                                                                       
Number 2091                                                                                                                     
JAMES  CARROLL,   Juneau  Retired  Teachers   Association;  AARP,                                                               
testified  that given  today's technology,  citizens value  their                                                               
privacy more than  ever.  He said that AARP  and Juneau's retired                                                               
teachers believe  that consumers have  the right to be  free from                                                               
unsolicited  calls.   They  should not  be forced  to  pay for  a                                                               
caller-ID feature for their phone.   In recent AARP surveys, most                                                               
of the  people polled indicated  that they support a  solution to                                                               
the problem of unwanted phone  calls.  Mr. Carroll testified that                                                               
no matter  what legislation is  passed in the  Alaska Legislature                                                               
or the  U.S. Congress, somebody  will find  loopholes in it.   He                                                               
said  it's a  good step  in the  right direction.   He  urged the                                                               
committee to vote favorably on HB 15.                                                                                           
Number 2024                                                                                                                     
JOHN FURUNESS,  Juneau Chapter Number 2088,  National Association                                                               
of Retired Federal Employees (NARFE);  AARP, testified that these                                                               
groups favor  HB 15.   He said he  testified in favor  of similar                                                               
legislation  last  year.   He  receives  many solicitation  calls                                                               
around dinnertime.  He cannot  understand about half of the calls                                                               
because he is  hard of hearing, and many other  times the line is                                                               
dead when he  answers the phone.  He asked  the committee to pass                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
Number 1955                                                                                                                     
JUDY  WARWICK, Interior  Regional Manager  for External  Affairs,                                                               
GCI, stated that  GCI wanted to go on record  as not opposing the                                                               
intent  of the  proposed CS  for HB  15, but  she cautioned,  the                                                               
devil is  in the  details.   She urged the  Department of  Law to                                                               
work with  the local telephone  exchange companies that  would be                                                               
responsible  for  keeping  this   data  current.    For  example,                                                               
companies  like  GCI  would supply  reassigned  and  disconnected                                                               
phone numbers  at least once a  year to the Alaska  No-Call List.                                                               
She said  telephone providers want  to achieve the intent  of the                                                               
legislation without being overly burdened.                                                                                      
Number 1910                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  spoke  to a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Gatto about  the status of  the Department of Law's  fiscal note.                                                               
He expressed  concern that the fiscal  note is too high  and said                                                               
he would consider increasing the fee for the data base.                                                                         
CHAIR  ANDERSON noted  that HB  15  still has  two committees  of                                                               
referral, the  House State Affairs  Standing Committee  and House                                                               
Finance  Standing  Committee, and  he  believed  the fiscal  bill                                                               
could be revised in one of those committees.                                                                                    
MR. SNIFFEN, in response to  a question from Representative Lynn,                                                               
said that the department is given  authority under HB 15 to draft                                                               
regulations to  determine how  much these  entities will  have to                                                               
pay for  the Alaska No-Call List.   He said the  department would                                                               
not discriminate in any way  among nonprofits in developing a fee                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN clarified  that he was not  talking about the                                                               
fee  schedule  but  about  issues  for  which  these  nonprofits'                                                               
solicitors would be advocating.                                                                                                 
MR.  SNIFFEN replied  that current  law contains  definitions for                                                               
paid   solicitors,  charitable   organizations,  and   telephonic                                                               
solicitations.   Any  entity, regardless  of their  cause, unless                                                               
they're  exempt under  the bill,  would be  required to  purchase                                                               
this list.  If the sponsor of HB  15 wants to exempt a group with                                                               
a  specific cause,  he would  need to  write that  into the  bill                                                               
because now there's no discrimination among causes.                                                                             
Number 1720                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   DAHLSTROM  asked   Ms.  Warwick   about  whether                                                               
individual  phone customers  or  local  exchange companies  would                                                               
provide information to the data base.                                                                                           
MS.  WARWICK explained  that  individuals  would initiate  having                                                               
their numbers  placed on  the Alaska No-Call  List, but  at least                                                               
annually,  that list  would be  purged of  reassigned numbers  or                                                               
disconnected numbers.   She  described the  example of  one phone                                                               
number  with two  subscribers.    The previous  user  of a  phone                                                               
number chose to  be on the no-call list, but  the subsequent user                                                               
of  the  same number  did  not  chose  that  option.   The  phone                                                               
companies would  have to  provide that change  in some  format to                                                               
the state's  agent.  She  said she  hopes that the  Department of                                                               
Law,  when  it  writes  regulations, will  work  with  the  local                                                               
exchanges so their role will be workable.                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD noted  that  in his  bill last  session,                                                               
phone companies  didn't have  to provide  any information  to the                                                               
no-call list; it would all be handled by a third party.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE FATE confirmed that is also true in HB 15.                                                                       
Number 1600                                                                                                                     
MR.  SNIFFEN,  in  response to  a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Rokeberg about  the department's fiscal note,  explained that the                                                               
bill was  based on the Colorado  model.  He said  the fiscal note                                                               
adapted Colorado's figures  to Alaska, for example  the number of                                                               
telephone    subscribers   and    the   number    of   registered                                                               
telemarketers.   He  said  department  staff calculated  possible                                                               
revenue from the  sale of the list at about  $20,000 to $30,000 a                                                               
year.   Based on the  experience of  Colorado and also  Idaho, he                                                               
said the department anticipated large  costs for getting the data                                                               
base and  web site set  up and  communicating with each  other in                                                               
the first  year.  The  rest of the fiscal  note was for  staff in                                                               
the  department  to  oversee  the  attorney  general's  work  and                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he was  appalled at the need for 400                                                               
hours of attorney  time and asked if this fiscal  note was really                                                               
intended to  kill the bill.   He asked  about the origins  of the                                                               
$500 price tag for the list and the idea of a sliding scale fee.                                                                
MR. SNIFFEN replied that he did not know.                                                                                       
Number 1484                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM asked  Mr.  Sniffen  about his  earlier                                                               
reference  to the  four telemarketing  companies registered  with                                                               
the  Department of  Law.   She asked  if he  was aware  of Alaska                                                               
companies  hiring telemarketers  located outside  the state,  for                                                               
example, in Arizona.  She  said the majority of the telemarketing                                                               
activity is based outside Alaska.                                                                                               
MR.  SNIFFEN  explained  that  it   doesn't  matter  whether  the                                                               
companies are  physically located  in or  out of  the state.   If                                                               
they intend  to do  telemarketing in  Alaska, they  must register                                                               
with   the  Department   of  Law.     Of   the  four   registered                                                               
telemarketers, two are located in  Alaska and two are located out                                                               
of state.                                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  asked if  an Alaskan business  hires an                                                               
out-of-state  telemarketing firm  that doesn't  properly register                                                               
with the Department of Law, which company is penalized.                                                                         
MR.  SNIFFEN   replied  the  local   contractor  would   be  held                                                               
responsible  if the  out-of-state  telemarketer  was engaging  in                                                               
illegal conduct,  unless the local  contractor didn't  know about                                                               
it.  Then the out-of-state company would be held liable.                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM asked  who would  prosecute an  Arizona                                                               
company if it were to break the Alaska law.                                                                                     
Number 1378                                                                                                                     
MR.  SNIFFEN responded  that there  are only  two lawyers  in the                                                               
entire state  to enforce the consumer  protection act, anti-trust                                                               
statutes, and  other laws.   When out-of-state  companies violate                                                               
Alaska's  registration and  telemarketing laws,  department staff                                                               
has  to decide  what kinds  of resources  are available  to track                                                               
them down.   The  department would  contact the  Arizona attorney                                                               
general's  office  and inform  it  that  somebody in  Arizona  is                                                               
violating  Alaska  laws;  the  department  would  seek  Arizona's                                                               
assistance in prosecuting  that company.  The  department can sue                                                               
the company in  Alaska court, get judgments  and injunctions, and                                                               
ask local  authorities in Arizona to  enforce them.  He  said the                                                               
department does  more work  with Florida  than Arizona,  but it's                                                               
the same process.                                                                                                               
Number 1327                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  asked what  priority the Department  of Law                                                               
assigns  to  reciprocal  requests from  other  states'  attorneys                                                               
MR. SNIFFEN  replied that the  department takes  those complaints                                                               
seriously and tries to find the Alaska perpetrators.                                                                            
Number 1259                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  Representative Fate  whether he'd                                                               
be amenable  to an amendment to  delete the sliding scale  and to                                                               
raise  the fee  from  $500 to  $750.   A  higher  fee would  help                                                               
finance  this  program.   The  long-range  goal  is to  make  the                                                               
program  self-sustaining like  it is  in Colorado.   He  said the                                                               
committee should do  everything it can to lower  the fiscal note.                                                               
He  doesn't  favor  any exemptions  for  nonprofit  organizations                                                               
because many Alaskan businesses are suffering economically.                                                                     
Number 1165                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  said he  has no  objection to  these changes                                                               
because he wants the program to be self-sustaining.                                                                             
Number 1150                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1:                                                                  
     Page 2, line 19                                                                                                            
     Delete "not more than $500"                                                                                                
     Insert "$750"                                                                                                              
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                   
Number 1090                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 2:                                                                  
     Page 2, lines 22                                                                                                           
      Delete "the Attorney General shall determine the fee                                                                      
     on a sliding scale;"                                                                                                       
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  asked  Representative Fate  whether  he                                                               
objected to  deleting the words  "below the stated  maximum based                                                               
on revenue history of the fees"  for the designated agent on page                                                               
2, line 27.                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  responded  that  he  had  no  objection  to                                                               
deleting this language.                                                                                                         
Number 1050                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 3:                                                                  
     Page 2, line 27                                                                                                            
       Delete "below the stated maximum based on revenue                                                                        
     history of the fees"                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that  this amendment will allow                                                               
the attorney  general to make an  adjustment of the fees  paid to                                                               
the designated agent, but not on a stipulated formula.                                                                          
Number 0976                                                                                                                     
CHAIR  ANDERSON asked  whether there  was any  objection.   There                                                               
being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                         
Number 0955                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 4:                                                                      
      Page 6, line 10, after "on behalf of the charitable                                                                       
     Insert "or a nonprofit advocacy organization"                                                                              
Number 0882                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  objected.   He  said  he doesn't  think                                                               
there's a definition in state law for an advocacy organization.                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN explained  that there  are various  advocacy                                                               
groups,  such as  conservation  groups,  Planned Parenthood,  and                                                               
Alaska Right to Life.  He disclosed  that he is a board member of                                                               
Alaska Right  to Life.   He  said he  is concerned  that somebody                                                               
[Department  of Law]  doesn't discriminate  against one  group or                                                               
the other  depending upon their  position on a  particular issue.                                                               
He  explained  that  these advocacy  groups  are  not  charitable                                                               
organizations,  but they  advocate positions  on various  issues.                                                               
He said  he doesn't  want to eliminate  those groups  from making                                                               
telephone solicitations.                                                                                                        
CHAIR  ANDERSON  suggested  that   if  these  organizations  have                                                               
501(c)(3) or 501(c)(6) status with  the Internal Revenue Service,                                                               
they are covered under charitable organizations in the bill.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said he opposes expanding  exemptions in                                                               
HB 15.  He said his goal is a zero fiscal note.                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  said a  nonprofit  advocacy  group is  not                                                               
included among the exemptions on  page 6, lines 9-13:  charitable                                                               
organization or public agency.                                                                                                  
CHAIR ANDERSON  asked Representative Lynn to  clarify what adding                                                               
nonprofit advocacy organization to the bill would accomplish.                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE   CRAWFORD  suggested   that  nonprofit   advocacy                                                               
organizations would  not have  to register and  pay for  the data                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  said he  concurred with  what Representative                                                               
Lynn is trying  to accomplish, but if the bill  were broadened to                                                               
add   nonprofit  advocates,   others,  whether   for  profit   or                                                               
nonprofit,  would   claim  to  be  advocacy   groups,  causing  a                                                               
nightmare of litigation.                                                                                                        
Number 0607                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN said  he  liked the  overall  intent of  the                                                               
bill; he  just wanted to  make sure  that groups that  advocate a                                                               
cause are not discriminated against.                                                                                            
Number 0577                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  said he believed advocacy  groups were                                                               
included in charitable organizations.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said  there   was  a  definition  of  a                                                               
nonprofit organization  in statute.   He expressed  concern about                                                               
adopting a generic  standard whereby any nonprofit  is exempt and                                                               
will be  allowed to do  telephone solicitations.   He said  if he                                                               
had a black  dot in front of  his name, he did  not want advocacy                                                               
calls to  his house.  This  bill was about the  public protecting                                                               
itself from telemarketers;  he said he did not  care what they're                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD suggested there  are two different issues                                                               
in this  discussion.  The  advocacy of ideas is  exempted already                                                               
on page  6, lines 14-15.   Fundraising  for advocacy groups  is a                                                               
different issue.                                                                                                                
Number 0385                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   FATE  said   in   AS   45.68.010  a   charitable                                                               
organization must register  with the Department of Law.   He said                                                               
an advocacy  group can  register with the  Department of  Law and                                                               
get a waiver.                                                                                                                   
Number 0282                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  withdrew  his motion  to  adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 4  but said he  would vote "no recommendation"  on this                                                               
bill and  would continue  working with the  sponsor to  make sure                                                               
his concerns were satisfied.                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE    GUTTENBERG    removed    his    objection    to                                                               
Representative Lynn's original motion to adopt the proposed CS.                                                                 
Number 0178                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  moved  to   report  CSHB  15  [Version  23-                                                               
LS0058\D,  Craver, 2/4/03],  as  amended, out  of committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  the  accompanying fiscal  notes.                                                               
There being no further objection,  CSHB 15(L&C) was reported from                                                               
the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                

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