Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/03/2003 08:03 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 215-REPEAL ONE PERCENT FOR ART                                                                                             
[Contains brief mention of HB 134]                                                                                              
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH  announced that  the next  order of  business was                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 215,  "An Act repealing  statutes that  relate to                                                               
art works in  public buildings and facilities and  that require a                                                               
set percentage of construction costs to be spent on art."                                                                       
Number 0991                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BILL STOLTZE,  Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB 215,  told the committee the bill was  not new, noting that                                                               
his  "colleague  from  District   20"  probably  had  a  previous                                                               
opportunity  to vote  on some  permutation  of this  bill in  the                                                               
past.     He  indicated  that   he  was  the  beneficiary   of  a                                                               
considerable amount of research on  this issue that had been done                                                               
by  [former]   Representative  [Mark]  Hanley.     Representative                                                               
Stoltze said  that he would  be approaching  the merits of  the 1                                                               
percent  for  art  from  the fiscal  rather  than  the  aesthetic                                                               
Number 0833                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE  said that  with more  school construction                                                               
and more  new projects, each dollar  would need to be  spent more                                                               
intelligently  by  weighing  all  of  the  costs  involved.    He                                                               
referred  to his  presentation a  few days  ago of  [HB 134],  "a                                                               
prison  bill,"  during  which  he had  asked  the  Department  of                                                               
Corrections [how  much] 1  percent [for] art  would amount  to on                                                               
the  "Sutton  proportion"  [a   proposed  prison  facility  under                                                               
HB 134].   He  was given  the estimated  amount of  $1.3 million,                                                               
which  he  said  he  found  to  be  staggering.    He  said  that                                                               
Representative  Holm  was  concerned  about the  cost  of  public                                                               
facilities.  He added, "That  really brought that to home, that's                                                               
why  I asked  him that  question."   Regarding prisons,  he said,                                                               
given the choice, he'd rather  allocate towards officer safety or                                                               
more beds.  He  said he expected that there would  be quite a bit                                                               
of testimony on  HB 215, adding that he respects  a divergence of                                                               
opinion and  also that  he comes  from a  family involved  in the                                                               
arts, with his  grandmother [Margaret G. Mielke]  being the first                                                               
poet laureate [of Alaska].                                                                                                      
Number 0656                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked Representative  Stoltz to explain the                                                               
zero fiscal note.                                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE responded  that it  was probably  because                                                               
the  Department of  Transportation &  Public Facilities  (DOT&PF)                                                               
didn't  have any  major facilities  being constructed  this year.                                                               
He said  that obviously there was  a cost involved, but  this was                                                               
difficult  to  quantify.   He  told  the committee  that  getting                                                               
information from state  agencies can be difficult  and that "this                                                               
probably hasn't been  the best-run program that  the state's ever                                                               
put out."  He noted that there have been innumerable audits.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  mentioned  that   the  fiscal  note  goes                                                               
through [2009],  shows a  zero amount, and  does not  include any                                                               
Number 0509                                                                                                                     
BARBARA  BITNEY, Staff  to  Representative  Bill Stoltze,  Alaska                                                               
State  Legislature, said  it  was very  difficult  to obtain  the                                                               
funding analysis.   She  explained this was  because in  1975 all                                                               
construction  projects were  under  [DOT&PF]  and were  gradually                                                               
released so  that eventually,  for example,  responsibilities for                                                               
school  construction projects  were  transferred  from DOT&PF  to                                                               
[the Department  of Education and  Early Development].   She said                                                               
there  are  other instances  such  as  the Alaska  Court  System,                                                               
wherein policies  and procedures  have been developed  similar to                                                               
DOT&PF's.  With  this being split out among  agencies, one source                                                               
doesn't have the  information as to cost savings.   She said that                                                               
DOT&PF can authorize the purchase  of art during the construction                                                               
phase.   She said that the  costs aren't being tracked,  so it is                                                               
not easy to obtain information in a simple format.                                                                              
Number 0423                                                                                                                     
MS.  BITNEY referred  to  an audit  of January  4,  1999, by  the                                                               
Legislative  Audit   Division  explaining   that  there   are  13                                                               
Department of  Law memorandums detailing  the discussion  on what                                                               
is and what is not applicable.                                                                                                  
Number 0400                                                                                                                     
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH asked if DOT&PF  could develop a fiscal note that                                                               
would reflect  the fiscal impact, if  it were given more  time to                                                               
do so.                                                                                                                          
Number 0352                                                                                                                     
MS.  BITNEY replied  that  she  didn't know  the  answer to  that                                                               
question.  She added that  after attempting to gather information                                                               
for several  weeks, all she ended  up with was the  art in public                                                               
places  fund, and  instead of  people depositing  money into  the                                                               
fund  and  then   purchasing  art,  it  was   done  "directly  at                                                               
construction";  therefore, the  fund  doesn't accurately  reflect                                                               
the percentage of money being spent.                                                                                            
Number 0330                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  HOLM referred  to  an  earlier conversation  with                                                               
Representative  Stoltze  in  which  it  was  intimated  that  the                                                               
percentage was  1 percent for  state projects but less  than that                                                               
for other projects within the state.                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE said he believed  it was in the late 1970s                                                               
that there was a statutory change  for schools in rural Alaska in                                                               
which the  percentage was reduced to  0.5 percent.  He  said this                                                               
isn't  new  -  value  judgments  have  been  made  in  the  past,                                                               
depending  upon such  things as  intrinsic value  or construction                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HOLM asked why the number used was 1 percent.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE  surmised  that  it  mirrored  a  federal                                                               
program and said he suspected it was modeled after federal law.                                                                 
Number 0170                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HOLM asked if it  made sense to have a requirement                                                               
without   having  a   way   to  audit,   track,   or  to   ensure                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE  replied that this was  a multi-committee,                                                               
bicameral  process  and   that  this  may  evolve   to  a  lesser                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  HOLM  suggested   that  whether  the  institution                                                               
involved  was a  jail  or  a school  would  indicate a  different                                                               
necessity for art.                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE agreed  that these  were valid  points to                                                               
Number 0079                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  interjected that  this only  relates to                                                               
art in  public places, so  regarding prison facilities,  it would                                                               
not  be art  within  the  entire institution,  it  would just  be                                                               
within the public sections of that  facility.  It would not go to                                                               
areas  like  bridges  or  sewer facilities  but  just  to  public                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE  indicated that the prisons  are included,                                                               
noting  that the  commissioner is  struggling to  incorporate the                                                               
art costs into construction.                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  asked  if  the  audit  could  be  made                                                               
The committee took an at-ease from 9:38 a.m. to 9:41 a.m.                                                                       
TAPE 03-37, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH referred to page 2,  Section 3 of the bill, which                                                               
allows  the construction  of memorials  to Alaska  veterans.   He                                                               
said, "I'm just  wondering, if we're doing away  [with] 1 percent                                                               
[for] art, should  we do away with the  construction of memorials                                                               
[to Alaska  veterans]?"  He  told Representative Stoltz  that the                                                               
question is more or less rhetorical.                                                                                            
Number 0076                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZ responded  that  there  certainly isn't  a                                                               
mandate "by percentage for those."   He said he thinks that "this                                                               
actually  refers to  the  1  percent [for]  art  not applying  to                                                               
that."  He opined  that the way the 1 percent  [for] art has been                                                               
structured through  a committee  process; the  committee wouldn't                                                               
want  to create  that clash  between the  arts community  and the                                                               
veterans  community.    He  said  that  Representative  Gruenberg                                                               
probably remembers  the visual arts center  in Anchorage, Alaska.                                                               
He  added,  "It's  probably  very  intelligent  that  those  that                                                               
proceeded  us  didn't  apply  the  1 percent  [for]  art  to  the                                                               
veterans'  memorial and  probably  prevented a  lot of  political                                                               
Number 0151                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated his  understanding that there are                                                               
so many  legal opinions because  the art projects are  spread out                                                               
among "the  departments," and when  "they did this  audit," legal                                                               
opinions [were necessary for each project].                                                                                     
Number 0266                                                                                                                     
CHARLOTTE FOX,  Executive Director,  Alaska State Council  on the                                                               
Arts (ASCA),  stated that  she thinks  that when  the legislation                                                               
was written in 1975, it was  pretty clear that the state took its                                                               
responsibility seriously to ensure  that all Alaskans have access                                                               
to the arts.   She said that she likes to think  of art in public                                                               
places as  "art in surprising  places," because it is  outside of                                                               
the normal galleries and museums.                                                                                               
MS. FOX said  that Representative Stoltz had  previously stated a                                                               
good point  - an issue that  the people who work  at "the agency"                                                               
struggle with  - that there's really  no clear method of  how the                                                               
art in  public places  fund works.   The  two statutes  that deal                                                               
with  "percent for  art" and  "art in  public places"  were well-                                                               
intentioned, but  didn't give anyone  real authority  to "oversee                                                               
the program or have any enforcements."                                                                                          
MS. FOX stated  that [ASCA] is concerned and  interested that the                                                               
program be  a success, but  has not  been given any  authority to                                                               
make  sure that  1  percent  for art  is  always  set aside,  for                                                               
example.  She  said that a lot of times  [ASCA] doesn't even know                                                               
that a project  is going on.   She said that she  agrees and that                                                               
the audit shows that something needs  to be done, but she doesn't                                                               
want [the program]  abolished, because it's very  important.  She                                                               
told committee members  that she thinks they  will hear [through]                                                               
other  testimony that  the  program is  vital,  provides jobs  to                                                               
Alaskans, and,  basically, doesn't cost  the State of  Alaska any                                                               
money out of  its operating budget.  She added,  "So, it's a win-                                                               
win program," and it needs to be operated efficiently.                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZ thanked Ms. Fox  for the help she has given                                                               
to him and his staff.                                                                                                           
Number 0583                                                                                                                     
SYBIL  DAVIS,  Executive  Director,   Juneau  Arts  &  Humanities                                                               
Council (JAHC), told  the committee that she has  been a resident                                                               
of  Alaska since  statehood  and  is a  concerned  citizen.   She                                                               
continued as follows:                                                                                                           
     What struck me  first and foremost is  that ... because                                                                    
     they have to  meet Alaska standards in  art, [the state                                                                    
     requires]   our   Alaskan   students  to   develop   an                                                                    
     understanding and  appreciation of  art, and  yet House                                                                    
     Bill  215 would  eliminate a  program that  feeds right                                                                    
     into that.                                                                                                                 
MS.  DAVIS  opined that  Alaska  is  a "magnificently  beautiful"                                                               
state.   Furthermore,  she stated  that it  is critical  that the                                                               
imprint and  physical mark that  is made  in the state  should be                                                               
esthetic.   She  said, "Our  environment is  extremely critical."                                                               
She told the committee that the  first thing she noticed when she                                                               
walked  into  the  committee room  was  its  "colorful  backdrop"                                                               
[referring to a  textile "northern lights" piece,  created by the                                                               
Auke Bay Elementary students].                                                                                                  
MS.  DAVIS  told the  committee  that  Lieutenant Governor  Loren                                                               
Leman's  staff came  into the  Juneau Arts  & Humanities  Council                                                               
office in need of art for their  walls and was able to borrow art                                                               
from the council.   She said, "It just  reinforces how critically                                                               
important our  environment is.   What we  live with, what  we see                                                               
every day, and what we nourish our students with is critical."                                                                  
Number 0737                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  shared a  comment he had  received from                                                               
an artist.   He  said, "Apparently,  someone had  asked [Winston]                                                               
Churchill why  they were continuing  funding for the  arts during                                                               
the war,  and [Mr. Churchill]  said, 'That's what  we're fighting                                                               
Number 0815                                                                                                                     
JUNE ROGERS, Director, Fairbanks  Art Association (FAA), told the                                                               
committee that she agrees with  the previously stated points made                                                               
by both Ms.  Davis and Ms. Fox.  She  indicated the bill's fiscal                                                               
intent language stating that other  needs more important than the                                                               
1 percent for  art expenditure are being considered.   She stated                                                               
that she takes exception to that.                                                                                               
MS. ROGERS  said that  she finds  that the  best value  is gained                                                               
from working with  programs that address youth and  the health of                                                               
communities, to make  certain that jails are  less filled, rather                                                               
than  more filled.   She  said she  hopes that  youth who  are in                                                               
[juvenile  detention] facilities  have access  to art  materials,                                                               
"so that we  can continue to try to reach  them, to address their                                                               
relationship to the  community in a way that's  most positive for                                                               
all of us."                                                                                                                     
MS.  ROGERS said  that FAA  works with  the school  district, the                                                               
state arts council, and [other]  organizations in the state.  She                                                               
mentioned a  recent arts  conference attended  by representatives                                                               
from major arts  organizations.  She told the  committee that she                                                               
spoke  at length  with a  woman from  Seldovia, [Alaska],  who is                                                               
working  desperately  to  address   problems  of  "a  variety  of                                                               
community  ills  through the  arts,"  such  as alcoholism.    She                                                               
stated  that art  in  public  places is  "the  one  way that  can                                                               
address this across the board  for all (indisc.)."  She indicated                                                               
working in a positive way to address the issues.                                                                                
Number 1002                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  HOLM thanked  Ms. Rogers  for all  the work  that                                                               
she's done for the arts community in Fairbanks, Alaska.                                                                         
Number 1000                                                                                                                     
MS.  ROGERS mentioned  libraries.   She  stated  that she  thinks                                                               
public art  is a  public museum.   Every  community in  the state                                                               
does not have the  funds for a museum, and the  1 percent for art                                                               
projects  provide  public access  to  art.    She referred  to  a                                                               
previously stated  point made by  Ms. Fox that this  doesn't save                                                               
money,  but just  reallocates money.   She  said, "I  don't think                                                               
that there is  a possibility of finding a better  value for those                                                               
Number 1120                                                                                                                     
KENNETH DeROUX  told the  committee that  he is  an artist  and a                                                               
resident of Juneau,  Alaska.  He noted that he  created one piece                                                               
of  public  art   for  the  state  in  the  1980s,   as  well  as                                                               
participated on "a number of panels,  back in the 1980s, when the                                                               
program had more  life to it."   He said that he is  a curator at                                                               
the Alaska  State Museum, [Juneau];  however, he is on  leave and                                                               
testifying on behalf of himself.                                                                                                
MR. DeROUX said that [the  issues surrounding] the bill have been                                                               
discussed repeatedly,  back in the  1980s.  He stated  his belief                                                               
that the 1  percent for art program  is a model of  the federal 1                                                               
percent for  art program.  Art  in public places is  a feature of                                                               
civilized countries  all over  the world.   Mr. DeRoux  said that                                                               
probably one  of the  more notable federal  programs was  the WPA                                                               
program [part  of the U.S.  Work Progress  Administration Federal                                                               
Writers'  Project  and Historical  Records  Survey]  back in  the                                                               
1930s, which [not  only] made work for artists,  but also created                                                               
beautiful works  of art throughout  the country, which  are still                                                               
appreciated today.                                                                                                              
Number 1218                                                                                                                     
MR. DeROUX  noted two issues:   the cost of the  program, and the                                                               
quality of  life issue.   Regarding the  cost of the  program, he                                                               
said  that  he  thinks  the public  frequently  perceives  the  1                                                               
percent as  [an additional  cost] to  construction programs.   He                                                               
stated that  it is 1 percent  of the construction cost,  which is                                                               
"arrived at independently."  He  explained that the 1 percent for                                                               
art is  built into the  project as a  feature of it,  but doesn't                                                               
really  detract from  the specifications  of that  project.   The                                                               
cost  of a  [construction] project  can change  significantly, he                                                               
said, depending on who is doing  the specs.  Mr. DeRoux said that                                                               
a  small project  is  currently underway  at  the [Alaska  State]                                                               
Museum.   He said, "If  somebody is not watch-dogging  every step                                                               
of the way, there's a lot of  money in any given project that can                                                               
go into one thing or another thing."                                                                                            
Number 1337                                                                                                                     
MR.  DeROUX  said  he  knows  that  (DOT&PF)  does  not  like  to                                                               
administer the program,  [because] it is not a  familiar area and                                                               
is,  perhaps, extra  work that  can  create administrative  costs                                                               
within personnel  budgets.  He  said that the arts  council would                                                               
like to see the program  administered better, but frequently does                                                               
not have the money to "watch-dog it."                                                                                           
Number 1390                                                                                                                     
MR. DeROUX  stated his  belief that  the money  goes into  a fund                                                               
that can  be used  to purchase  artwork for  the state  art bank,                                                               
which then  can be used in  public buildings.  He  noted that the                                                               
art  bank is  another related  program.   He  told the  committee                                                               
members that if they saw what is  in the art bank and where it is                                                               
[displayed], they would  be impressed at how well  Alaska does at                                                               
"getting its art around and really dressing up its buildings."                                                                  
Number 1411                                                                                                                     
MR. DeROUX  returned to the quality  of life issue.   He told the                                                               
committee  that  he  had  attended  a  conference  in  Anchorage,                                                               
Alaska.  The  keynote speaker was a school  administrator from an                                                               
inner city  district in a  big East  Coast city who  testified to                                                               
the importance  of the environment  of schools.  Mr.  DeRoux said                                                               
that  the speaker  talked about  a school  in an  industrial zone                                                               
that was  designed by a good  architect and cost more  money than                                                               
normal, in  order to  be a  facility that  the students  could be                                                               
proud of.   The students were  proud of the school  and vandalism                                                               
dropped dramatically.   Furthermore, the school  became a magnate                                                               
for events and, as more  people used the school, the neighborhood                                                               
blossomed as  well.  Mr. DeRoux  posited that the end  result was                                                               
because of the concern for the quality of the environment.                                                                      
Number 1509                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked Mr. DeRoux  to explain how 1 percent of                                                               
the construction cost is not an additional cost to the project.                                                                 
MR.  DeROUX stated  that  it  is his  understanding  that [the  1                                                               
percent] does not actually increase the cost of the project.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN  indicated  the   1  percent  is  built  in;                                                               
however, if there  was no 1 percent, wouldn't that  make the cost                                                               
of the project 1 percent less?                                                                                                  
MR.  DeROUX  said  that  he  does not  "cost  out"  projects  and                                                               
therefore  does  not  understand  the  process  completely.    In                                                               
response  to  a follow-up  question  by  Representative Lynn,  he                                                               
suggested that [DOT&PF] could perhaps explain the issue.                                                                        
Number 1610                                                                                                                     
JOCELYN YOUNG, Curator,  1 percent for art  program in Anchorage,                                                               
Alaska,  testifying  as  a  private   citizen,  stated  that  the                                                               
municipality  [of Anchorage]  passed its  own ordinance  in 1978,                                                               
after  the   state  law  was   passed  in  1975,   because  major                                                               
construction  projects were  beginning  and  Anchorage wanted  to                                                               
have control  over the funds and  make decisions on a  very local                                                               
level.   The people who  work in the  buildings are the  ones who                                                               
are making the decisions about  the artwork, she said; therefore,                                                               
the artwork chosen will be different from place to place.                                                                       
MS. YOUNG  noted that Alaska was  the tenth state in  the country                                                               
to pass a  1 percent for art statute, and  now there are hundreds                                                               
of programs  throughout the country,  supporting the  addition of                                                               
artwork for private and public  buildings.  The program in Alaska                                                               
is seen  as one of  the best in the  country, she said.   Artists                                                               
within the state, and those  who have lived in Alaska previously,                                                               
are proud  to claim that  they have  work in the  collection, she                                                               
MS. YOUNG  said that,  in Anchorage,  1 percent  is the  cost set                                                               
aside for  the artwork in its  buildings.  When projects  are bid                                                               
upon,  she said,  15-20  percent  of the  budget  is usually  for                                                               
contingency alone.  The 1  percent funds would not translate into                                                               
better  building  material  if  the  program  was  no  longer  in                                                               
existence; it  wouldn't be used  for stronger  structural support                                                               
or  better flooring,  for  example, because  there  are codes  in                                                               
place that "already  address these things."  Ms.  Young said that                                                               
those funds would  be lost to the artists and  to the structures,                                                               
and would be reabsorbed into the construction of the project.                                                                   
MS. YOUNG  said that  the artists benefit  from the  challenge of                                                               
creating designs and  projects "at this scale."   She said, "This                                                               
is a  way to treat  our artists in  our state and  community like                                                               
professionals, on a  par with architects and  designers and other                                                               
project personnel."   She stated that  1 percent may look  like a                                                               
large amount of  money, but a lot of artists  are not making very                                                               
much money  on these projects.   She  explained that there  are a                                                               
lot of expenses that go into  building public art.  Many artists,                                                               
she said,  "do this" because they  love to see their  artwork out                                                               
there for the  general public to enjoy, and they  want to enhance                                                               
the buildings.                                                                                                                  
MS.  YOUNG  noted  that  she  is very  familiar  with  the  state                                                               
program,  because the  program in  Anchorage, Alaska  was modeled                                                               
after it.   She told the  committee that she hopes  it finds lots                                                               
of reasons to  support public art and "few reasons  to support HB
Number 1842                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  if  Ms. Young  is  aware of  any                                                               
other  states  that  have  chosen to  balance  their  budgets  by                                                               
repealing "this kind of a program."                                                                                             
MS. YOUNG answered  no.  She said she has  been hearing that more                                                               
codes are  being passed in  municipalities [within  other] states                                                               
that require private development to also include public art.                                                                    
Number 1888                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  referred to  an  article  from the  Homer                                                             
Daily  News  that  speaks  to  [the  issue  of  public  art]  and                                                             
addresses the  Alaska Center for  the Performing Arts  (ACPA), in                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska,  regarding ACPA's use  of 1 percent  [for] art                                                               
money  towards  design elements  of  the  carpets, railings,  and                                                               
lighting.  He  asked if elements [that are  incorporated into the                                                               
building, such as carpets] count  as those that don't necessarily                                                               
increase the cost of the project by 1 percent.                                                                                  
MS. YOUNG explained that, for  example, an artist is selected out                                                               
of proposals submitted to develop  a design for the upholstery in                                                               
one  of the  theatres,  and  is paid  a  nominal  design fee  of,                                                               
perhaps, $5,000 to oversee "the running  of the mill of ... their                                                               
design and installation."  The  upholstery was going to be milled                                                               
anyway, she said, "so this is a  way to stretch the 1 percent for                                                               
art dollars."                                                                                                                   
Number 1990                                                                                                                     
DUKE RUSSELL testified  that he is a veteran artist  and a "super                                                               
voter" who has lived in [Anchorage]  for over 30 years.  He said,                                                               
"I can't  help but think this  is kind of a  'Nimbus' thing, that                                                               
it's more not  liking some of the products of  this project."  He                                                               
opined that the  benefits of the 1 percent for  art go far beyond                                                               
the  obvious.    He  said   its  "soul  food";  it's  "contagious                                                               
creativity."  He  explained that people spur ideas  off of ideas.                                                               
He said,  "The art  and the artists  are not  just subcontractors                                                               
laying pipe."   He stated  that the presence  of public art  is a                                                               
unique component  of the city  that delineates it from  any other                                                               
place.  He  mentioned imagining Chicago having  problems with its                                                               
Picassos, or  its large public  art.   He said that  [Chicago] is                                                               
certainly "a model for us all."                                                                                                 
MR. RUSSELL said [Anchorage] is  suffering from homogenization of                                                               
the Outside  - the franchises and  the "super stores."   He said,                                                               
"Don't further  impact this  blight by  rescinding the  1 percent                                                               
for the arts."   He said that he has lived  "here" for his entire                                                               
adult  life and  has  never  "experienced the  level  of so  much                                                               
spastic legislation."  Mr.  Russell expressed his dissatisfaction                                                               
with  the current  administration.   In response  to a  remark by                                                               
Chair Weyhrauch, he said that  [the legislature] is [also] trying                                                               
to save  money and  "all it takes  is income tax."   He  said the                                                               
ideas  [of  the legislature]  don't  make  sense or  reflect  the                                                               
values of Alaskans and that he expects more from [the                                                                           
Number 2120                                                                                                                     
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH responded, "Well, we expect a lot from                                                                          
ourselves, Mr. Russell."                                                                                                        
[HB 215 was held over.]                                                                                                         

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