Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205

02/23/2016 03:30 PM EDUCATION

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Audio Topic
03:32:46 PM Start
03:33:20 PM SB174
04:22:07 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Moved CSSB 174(EDC) Out of Committee
         SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK                                                                      
3:33:20 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY announced the consideration of SB 174.                                                                           
SENATOR HUGGINS  moved to adopt  the CS  for SB 174,  labeled 29-                                                               
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.                                                                                         
3:33:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor of SB 174,                                                               
testified on SB 174. He deferred  to his staff to explain changes                                                               
in the new CS.                                                                                                                  
SENATOR GIESSEL asked which version was before the committee.                                                                   
3:34:50 PM                                                                                                                    
JOE BYRNES, Staff, Senator Pete  Kelly, Alaska State Legislature,                                                               
presented changes in version N of  SB 174. He noted version N was                                                               
before the committee.                                                                                                           
MR. BYRNES  addressed the  summary of changes  from version  H to                                                               
version N:                                                                                                                      
Page 2, Lines 3-12                                                                                                              
Under AS 14.40.173(b) adds to the  exceptions of how the Board of                                                               
Regents may  regulate the  possession, ownership,  use, carrying,                                                               
registration,  storage, or  transportation of  concealed handguns                                                               
or  knives   by  incorporating   the  recommendations   from  the                                                               
University of Alaska Board of Regents                                                                                           
      · (b)(2) when the behavior of a student or an employee                                                                    
         demonstrates that the student or employee poses a risk                                                                 
         of harm to self or others [lines 5-6]                                                                                  
      · (b)(3) in student dormitories or other shared living                                                                    
         quarters [line 7]                                                                                                      
      · (b)(4) in university facilities where health services,                                                                  
         counseling services, or other services related to sexual                                                               
        harassment or violence are provided [lines 8-9]                                                                         
      · (b)(5) in university facilities during adjudication of                                                                  
         staff or student disciplinary issues [lines 10-11]                                                                     
      · (b)(6) in restricted access areas under (c)(3) [line 12                                                                 
         referencing lines 21-23]                                                                                               
3:36:46 PM                                                                                                                    
Page 2, Lines 24-26                                                                                                             
Adds a subsection  (d) that requires the  University to establish                                                               
a process  to allow  a person  who is  prevented from  carrying a                                                               
concealed handgun  or knife  under (b)(2)  [lines 5-6]  to regain                                                               
the ability to  carry a concealed handgun or  knife on university                                                               
Page 3                                                                                                                          
Removes the transition language  [previously in Section 3] giving                                                               
the  Board of  Regents 30  days following  the effective  date to                                                               
implement conforming policies.                                                                                                  
He  said  the  change  on  page   3  was  not  requested  by  the                                                               
university, but the  sponsor felt it was not  necessary and would                                                               
cause a delay.                                                                                                                  
3:38:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  DUNLEAVY asked  if the  language  in the  CS protects  the                                                               
rights  of a  student in  a  classroom from  being dismissed  for                                                               
having a concealed gun.                                                                                                         
MR. BYRNES said  the bill does not allow the  Board of Regents to                                                               
restrict the carry of guns and knives on campus.                                                                                
3:39:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY opened public testimony.                                                                                         
KATHRYN  MONFREDA,  Chief,   Criminal  Records  &  Identification                                                               
Bureau,  Division of  Statewide  Services,  Department of  Public                                                               
Safety (DPS), offered to answered questions related to SB 174.                                                                  
SENATOR GARDNER asked if DPS has a position on the bill.                                                                        
MS. MONFREDA said DPS is neutral on the legislation.                                                                            
3:40:05 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM  JOHNSEN, President,  University of  Alaska, testified  on SB                                                               
174. He thanked  the sponsor for including changes in  the new CS                                                               
that address four areas of  concern. He said the university still                                                               
has some concerns.  The bill does not address  concealed carry in                                                               
programs  where there  are K-12  students. If  the programs  were                                                               
offered  in a  K-12 setting  it would  be a  criminal offense  to                                                               
carry  a weapon.  He requested  that  SB 174  be consistent  with                                                               
existing law and allow the  university to apply similar standards                                                               
of care. He  said he would be  happy to work with  the sponsor on                                                               
drafting a provision that narrowly focuses on this provision.                                                                   
He brought up a second area  of concern - concealed carry without                                                               
a permit. The  CS does not require a permit  as Senator Coghill's                                                               
bill did.  He felt  that it  made a lot  of sense  in conjunction                                                               
with the  other management tools.  He said  he would be  happy to                                                               
work with the sponsor on that issue.                                                                                            
DR. JOHNSEN said  the language proposed as  AS 14.41.73(b)(5), on                                                               
page  2, line  10,  of  the CS  applies  to  the adjudication  of                                                               
student and  employee discipline, but does  not include disputes.                                                               
He stated the reasons why disputes need to be included, as well.                                                                
3:44:54 PM                                                                                                                    
BRIAN  JUDY, Alaska  State Liaison,  National Rifle  Association,                                                               
testified in support of SB 174.  He said a person should have the                                                               
fundamental  rights of  self-defense and  bearing arms  when they                                                               
are on a  college campus. He disagreed that  protection should be                                                               
left up  to the professionals.  He maintained that  police cannot                                                               
respond  quickly enough,  and every  mass killing  has been  in a                                                               
gun-free  zone.   He  said  nine   states  have   passed  similar                                                               
legislation  and there  have been  no problems  on those  college                                                               
campuses.  He  provided  the  history   of  concealed  carry.  He                                                               
suggested  that the  bill will  not  increase the  need for  more                                                               
security on campus.                                                                                                             
3:48:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GARDNER asked  if the  NRA  thinks a  citizen should  be                                                               
unarmed on commercial aircraft.                                                                                                 
MR.  JUDY said  that  armed  citizens should  not  be allowed  at                                                               
security checkpoints  if it can be  proved that it will  be safer                                                               
to do so. He  said there could be secure areas  on campus, if one                                                               
could assure that bad guys will not be on campus.                                                                               
SENATOR GARDNER assumed  that belief would hold true  for a court                                                               
room also. She  asked if the NRA believes K-12  schools should be                                                               
gun-free zones.                                                                                                                 
3:51:00 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. JUDY  pointed out  that it  is in  gun-free zones  where mass                                                               
killings  have taken  place. He  understood that  in Alaska  K-12                                                               
schools are theoretically gun free.                                                                                             
SENATOR  GARDNER said  the NRA  has  taken a  position that  guns                                                               
aren't  the problem;  mental health  issues are  the problem  and                                                               
mental  health  services and  screening  are  the solutions.  She                                                               
requested more information about those services.                                                                                
MR. JUDY  thought that  people with  mental health  issues should                                                               
get treatment.                                                                                                                  
3:53:04 PM                                                                                                                    
HANS  RODVIK, representing  himself, testified  in support  of SB                                                               
174. He  said he  worked on Senator  Coghill's bill  on concealed                                                               
carry on university  campuses. He gave as  reasons for supporting                                                               
the bill  the safety  of students  and constitutional  rights. He                                                               
shared a story about a rape  on the University of Nevada-Reno. He                                                               
said there  were 35 registered  sex offenders within one  mile of                                                               
UAA in 2014.  He concluded that students have a  right to protect                                                               
3:57:00 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN SONIN,  representing himself, testified in  opposition to SB                                                               
174. He questioned  why the bill is even being  heard. He did not                                                               
believe "kids" should  have access to guns on campus.  He did not                                                               
agree with  the "good  guy/bad guy"  theory. He  did not  want to                                                               
return to the era where everyone carried guns.                                                                                  
3:59:53 PM                                                                                                                    
EUGENE  AVEY,  Superintendent,  Annette Island  School  District,                                                               
testified in opposition to SB  174. He shared incidences when two                                                               
students brought  weapons to school.  He said in  both instances,                                                               
the students  had troubled lives.  He did  not think it  would be                                                               
beneficial to allow teachers or  anyone to have weapons on campus                                                               
and  make quick  decisions about  whether  to use  them. He  said                                                               
teachers do  not want to  be put into  that position; it  is best                                                               
left it up  to the police force. He noted  that getting the right                                                               
services for students provides better success.                                                                                  
SENATOR GARDNER asked if his  concern was that the children would                                                               
have been shot.                                                                                                                 
MR. AVERY  said yes, and  that faculty might  have had to  make a                                                               
decision that  they are  not qualified to  make. Teachers  do not                                                               
need to be trained in concealed carry.                                                                                          
4:02:36 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE  COONS, representing  himself,  testified in  support of  SB                                                               
174. He  did not agree  with Dr. Johnsen's recommendation  to not                                                               
allow  concealed carry  where K-12  students are.  He said  those                                                               
kids are  not in danger  and are  more secure around  people with                                                               
guns. He  also was  against the  need to  have a  concealed carry                                                               
4:06:08 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY closed public testimony.                                                                                         
4:06:25 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
4:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if there were any amendments to the bill.                                                                  
SENATOR GARDNER moved to adopt Amendment 1:                                                                                     
     Page 2, following line 14:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
     "(d) Notwithstanding (b) of this  section, the Board of                                                                    
     Regents  may  require  a person  who  possesses,  owns,                                                                    
     uses,  carries,  registers,  stores,  or  transports  a                                                                    
     concealed  handgun  to  obtain  a  permit  to  carry  a                                                                    
     concealed handgun in AS 18.65.700 - 18.65.790."                                                                            
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.                                                                                         
SENATOR GARDNER explained Amendment  1. She referred to President                                                               
Johnsen's  reasons  for  requiring  someone who  wants  to  carry                                                               
concealed to  have a permit.  It would  ensure that a  student or                                                               
employee would have  had a certain amount  of training, knowledge                                                               
of gun safety,  and applicable law, as it was  included in SB 176                                                               
in the previous legislature.                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY maintained his objection.                                                                                        
4:07:41 PM                                                                                                                    
A roll  call vote was  taken. Senator  Gardner voted in  favor of                                                               
Amendment  1 and  Senators Huggins,  Giessel, and  Dunleavy voted                                                               
against it. Therefore, Amendment 1 failed by a 1:3 vote.                                                                        
4:08:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GARDNER moved Amendment 2:                                                                                              
     Page 2, line 3:                                                                                                            
     Following "in":                                                                                                            
     Insert "(1)"                                                                                                               
     Following "law":                                                                                                           
     (2)university facilities where programs for preschool,                                                                     
       elementary, junior high, or secondary students are                                                                       
     provided; or                                                                                                               
        (3)restricted access areas under (c)(3) of this                                                                         
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.                                                                                         
SENATOR  GARDNER  explained  that  Amendment 2  was  one  of  the                                                               
changes requested  by the university.  President Johnsen  said it                                                               
would allow the  university to regulate gun carry the  same as K-                                                               
12  with  existing  standards  for  care  on  campus.  University                                                               
facilities  with K-12  students  present would  be regulated  the                                                               
same as K-12 schools.                                                                                                           
CHAIR DUNLEAVY maintained his objection.                                                                                        
4:08:59 PM                                                                                                                    
A roll  call vote was taken.  Senators Gardner voted in  favor of                                                               
Amendment  2 and  Senators Huggins,  Giessel, and  Dunleavy voted                                                               
against it. Therefore, Amendment 2 failed by a 1:3 vote.                                                                        
SENATOR GARDNER  moved Conceptual  Amendment 3:  on page  2, line                                                               
11, after "disciplinary issues"  include the words "or disputes."                                                               
She said this was also suggested by President Johnsen.                                                                          
4:10:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected.                                                                                                        
SENATOR  HUGGINS appreciated  the  spirit of  the amendment,  but                                                               
said the  bill is dealing  with constitutional rights and  he did                                                               
not want to consider a conceptual amendment.                                                                                    
CHAIR  DUNLEAVY  agreed with  Senator  Huggins.  He thought  that                                                               
"dispute" needed  to be defined.  He said the next  committee can                                                               
take up that amendment.                                                                                                         
A roll  call vote was  taken. Senator  Gardner voted in  favor of                                                               
Conceptual  Amendment  3  and   Senators  Huggins,  Giessel,  and                                                               
Dunleavy  voted against  it.  Therefore,  Conceptual Amendment  3                                                               
failed by a 1:3 vote.                                                                                                           
4:12:03 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGGINS moved  to report CSSB 174 (EDC),  version N, from                                                               
committee with individual recommendations.                                                                                      
SENATOR GARDNER objected. She said  she understands that for some                                                               
people this is a black and  white issue that the Second Amendment                                                               
has  guarantees and  for others  it is  understood as  part of  a                                                               
militia.  She maintained  that citizens  accept that  rights have                                                               
common sense  compromises in various  situations. It  is accepted                                                               
that  guns cannot  be  carried on  airplanes  and in  psychiatric                                                               
wards, or  in court rooms,  pre-schools, and  elementary schools.                                                               
She believed it  should be the same for  universities where there                                                               
are young  people who are  unformed in many  ways and are  in new                                                               
She  did not  believe  that having  everybody  armed made  people                                                               
safer. She  gave examples of  rape victims where  the perpetrator                                                               
had a weapon. She said she  was informed that the person with the                                                               
most training is safer in  situations such as that, but, training                                                               
is  not required  in the  bill. She  concluded that  the bill  is                                                               
dangerous and she is going to vote against it.                                                                                  
4:14:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGGINS said  he does  not accept  that a  person cannot                                                               
carry  in an  airplane.  He  shared a  story  about his  daughter                                                               
needing guns for protection.                                                                                                    
CHAIR  DUNLEAVY appreciated  the discussion.  He maintained  that                                                               
private  institutions  can  set   their  own  rules,  but  public                                                               
institutions that  take public  money must  follow state  law. He                                                               
said most students at some  universities in Alaska are adults. He                                                               
said he considers  the bill a rights issue. He  spoke as a father                                                               
of three daughters, one who is  on campus. He noted that research                                                               
shows that  women are not  involved in mass killings,  except for                                                               
what occurred in  San Bernardino. He believed  students in Alaska                                                               
need protection on campus.                                                                                                      
He agreed that  alcohol is an issue on all  campuses, but that it                                                               
does not  mean gun rights should  be denied. He said  he sides on                                                               
the side of the Second Amendment.  He said the University of Utah                                                               
has  this  law.   He  concluded  that  the   bill  would  provide                                                               
protection on campus.                                                                                                           
4:21:37 PM                                                                                                                    
A roll call vote was  taken. Senator Gardner voted against moving                                                               
the  bill out  of committee  and Senators  Huggins, Giessel,  and                                                               
Dunleavy  voted for  it. Therefore,  the motion  failed by  a 1:3                                                               
vote. CSSB  174(EDC) reported from the  Senate Education Standing                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSSB 174 Version N.pdf SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB174 Letters of Support.pdf SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB174 Response to Members Questions at Feb. 16, 2016 Hearing.pdf SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 - Immunity Provision Memo from UA.pdf SEDC 2/23/2016 3:30:00 PM
SB 174