Legislature(2015 - 2016)SENATE FINANCE 532

03/24/2016 01:30 PM FINANCE


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01:40:12 PM Start
01:40:56 PM SB174
04:14:41 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 174 REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony 2:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.--
-- Public Testimony Limited to 3 Minutes --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
SENATE BILL NO. 174                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to the regulation of firearms and                                                                         
     knives by the University of Alaska."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:40:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly stated  that there  would be  individuals on                                                                    
line  and available  for testimony  and to  answer questions                                                                    
about the bill.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:41:11 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  explained that the committee  would consider                                                                    
the bill and then hear public testimony.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche  made  a motion  to  adopt  the  Senate                                                                    
Education  Committee  version of  the  bill,  which was  the                                                                    
version of the bill that  was before the committee [a motion                                                                    
was not needed to consider CSSB 174(EDC), Version N].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  asked to  hear a  review of  the recent                                                                    
changes to the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop asked for the version of the bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly clarified that the  bill being considered was                                                                    
version N.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:42:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  BYRNES,  STAFF,  SENATOR   PETE  KELLY,  discussed  the                                                                    
changes  between  version H  and  version  N, the  Committee                                                                    
Substitute (CS)  for SB  174 (EDC). He  referred to  page 2,                                                                    
lines 3 through 12 of the bill:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (b)  The   Board  of  Regents  may   not  regulate  the                                                                    
     possession,  ownership,  use,  carrying,  registration,                                                                    
     storage,  or transportation  of  concealed handguns  or                                                                    
     knives, except                                                                                                             
          (1) in a manner identical to state law;                                                                               
          (2) when the behavior of  a student or an employee                                                                    
          demonstrates that the student  or employee poses a                                                                    
          risk of harm to self or others;                                                                                       
          (3) in student dormitories  or other shared living                                                                    
          quarters;                                                                                                             
          (4)   in   university  facilities   where   health                                                                    
          services, counseling  services, or  other services                                                                    
          related  to  sexual  harassment  or  violence  are                                                                    
          provided;                                                                                                             
          (5) in  university facilities  during adjudication                                                                    
          of staff or student disciplinary issues; or                                                                           
          (6) in  restricted access are  as under  (c)(3) of                                                                    
          this section.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Byrnes noted  that some  exceptions  to subsection  (b)                                                                    
were incorporated after  recommendations from the University                                                                    
of Alaska  Board of Regents.  He referred to  subsection (d)                                                                    
on page 2, lines 24 through 26:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (d) The University of Alaska  shall establish a process                                                                    
     to  allow a  person who  is prevented  from carrying  a                                                                    
     concealed  handgun  or  knife   under  (b)(2)  of  this                                                                    
     section  to regain  the ability  to  carry a  concealed                                                                    
     handgun or knife on university property.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes  continued to  discuss the  bill, noting  that on                                                                    
page 3, transition  language was removed that  had given the                                                                    
Board of  Regents 30  days following  the effective  date to                                                                    
implement conforming policies.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:45:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JO HECKMAN,  CHAIR, UNIVERSITY OF  ALASKA BOARD  OF REGENTS,                                                                    
FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), thanked Co-Chair  Kelly for                                                                    
the  changes recently  introduced to  the bill.  She thought                                                                    
that  without the  amendments, the  bill  would prevent  the                                                                    
University from responding to  common, specific, and serious                                                                    
problems  on  University  property.   She  pointed  out  the                                                                    
distinction that  University regulation did not  extend into                                                                    
the community or  private homes, but rather  only applied to                                                                    
situations  and   people  for   which  the   University  was                                                                    
responsible.  She  emphasized  the  difference  between  the                                                                    
University  and municipalities  and the  state. She  relayed                                                                    
that the  University must intervene  daily in  conflicts and                                                                    
must  manage   how  thousands  of  students   and  employees                                                                    
interacted. University  policy and  regulation was  the only                                                                    
way to  achieve such  intervention. She summarized  that the                                                                    
University had asked for amendments  in six areas to address                                                                    
specific known problems:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1. When  a student or  employee demonstrated a risk  to harm                                                                    
of self or others.                                                                                                              
2. In student dormitories and other shared living quarters.                                                                     
3. In  University facilities  housing health  and counseling                                                                    
services, or other services related  to sexual harassment or                                                                    
violence.                                                                                                                       
4.  During adjudication  of staff  or  student disputes,  or                                                                    
disciplinary issues.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Heckman considered that while  the latest version of the                                                                    
bill generally  addressed the first four  issues, it omitted                                                                    
the  adjudications  of  disputes   and  therefore  left  two                                                                    
additional  areas  the  University believed  regulation  was                                                                    
needed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:48:30 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:41 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Heckman continued to list the six areas of concern:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5. Parts of facilities used  for dedicated programs for pre-                                                                    
school, elementary, junior high, and secondary students.                                                                        
6. Concealed carry permits.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Heckman  elaborated  that the  board  believed  that  a                                                                    
student  or   employee  carrying   a  concealed   weapon  in                                                                    
University  common  areas  should  have  some  training  and                                                                    
knowledge of  gun safety and  applicable law, as well  as be                                                                    
subject to a criminal background check.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Heckman  summarized  that   the  first  five  requested                                                                    
amendments involved situations in  which concealed carry was                                                                    
criminalized   under  current   law.  She   asked  why   the                                                                    
University  should   not  be  unable  to   regulate  similar                                                                    
situations  administratively. She  thought that  regulations                                                                    
had  value,  even  if  they  were  not  always  followed  by                                                                    
students or  employees. She pointed  out that  even criminal                                                                    
law did not  prevent all crimes from  occurring. Ms. Heckman                                                                    
stated  that University  policy  allowed  the University  to                                                                    
take preventive action when it  became aware of a violation,                                                                    
as  well as  formulate  a prompt  response  to conduct  that                                                                    
posed  a threat  of harm.  She  referenced a  report to  the                                                                    
National  Rifle Association  by the  National School  Shield                                                                    
Task Force.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:51:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Heckman   (for  the  Board  of   Regents)  respectfully                                                                    
requested  that the  aforementioned amendments  be included.                                                                    
She thought  the amendments were essential  to management of                                                                    
the  known   issues  the  board   had  identified,   and  to                                                                    
effectively  govern  the   University  consistent  with  the                                                                    
board's constitutional  mandate. She referred to  memos that                                                                    
had been  sent to  Co-Chair Kelly  and Senator  Maguire. She                                                                    
conveyed that she  had numerous phone calls  and emails from                                                                    
students, faculty  and staff with  concerns about  the bill.                                                                    
She shared  that she was  married to a retired  Alaska State                                                                    
Trooper, and as  such had firearms as part of  her life. She                                                                    
felt  it  was important  to  ask  for consideration  of  the                                                                    
amendments if the bill was to move forward.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bishop   referenced  subsection  (d)  on   page  2,                                                                    
starting on line 24:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     (d) The University of Alaska  shall establish a process                                                                    
     to  allow a  person who  is prevented  from carrying  a                                                                    
     concealed  handgun  or  knife   under  (b)(2)  of  this                                                                    
     section  to regain  the ability  to  carry a  concealed                                                                    
     handgun or knife on university property.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop  asked about the  protocol for  regaining the                                                                    
ability to carry a handgun or knife on university property.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL   HOSTINA,  UA   GENERAL  COUNCIL,   FAIRBANKS  (via                                                                    
teleconference), explained that  generally if the amendments                                                                    
were to  restrict the  possession of  firearms, it  would be                                                                    
part  of a  disciplinary  process (or  a  student care  team                                                                    
process) with  procedures that were already  established. He                                                                    
furthered that any preliminary  sanction or restriction that                                                                    
was  imposed   was  already  subject  to   review,  and  the                                                                    
University   would   simply   incorporate  review   of   any                                                                    
restriction involving weapons within the same process.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:55:33 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:56:48 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Byrnes reviewed  the sectional  analysis  for the  bill                                                                    
(copy on file):                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1                                                                                                                  
     It is the  findings and intent of  the legislature that                                                                    
     the right  to bear  arms is  constitutionally protected                                                                    
     under Art. 1, Sec. 19  of the Alaska Constitution, that                                                                    
     the  University  Of Alaska  Board  Of  Regents may  not                                                                    
     abridge  that right,  and the  legislature reserves  to                                                                    
     the state the authority to regulate firearms.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2                                                                                                                  
     Amends  AS  14.40 (The  University  of  Alaska and  the                                                                    
     Community  Colleges statutes)  affirming the  authority                                                                    
     to  regulate firearms  and knives  is  reserved to  the                                                                    
     state, the  Board of Regents may  not regulate firearms                                                                    
     and knives except                                                                                                          
          1. In a manner identical to state law                                                                                 
          2. When the behavior of a student or an employee                                                                      
          demonstrates that the student or employee poses a                                                                     
          risk of harm to self or others                                                                                        
          3. In student dormitories or other shared living                                                                      
          quarters                                                                                                              
          4.   In   university   facilities   where   health                                                                    
          services, counseling  services, or  other services                                                                    
          related  to  sexual  harassment  or  violence  are                                                                    
          provided                                                                                                              
          5. In university facilities during adjudication                                                                       
          of staff or student disciplinary issues                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  Board of  Regents may  adopt and  enforce policies                                                                    
     regulating  the  open  carry of  firearms  and  knives,                                                                    
     restricting   the   discharge,  and   prohibiting   the                                                                    
     possession in restricted access areas.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The University  is prohibited from creating  a database                                                                    
     or registry of persons who possess firearms on campus.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  University must  establish  a  process allowing  a                                                                    
     person,  who is  prevented  from  carrying a  concealed                                                                    
     handgun  or  knife  (after   being  determined  by  the                                                                    
     University to be a threat  to themselves or others), to                                                                    
     regain  the ability  to carry  a  concealed handgun  or                                                                    
     knife on university property.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The  University  is  immune from  civil  liability  for                                                                    
     policies enforced under this section.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bishop  asked  about   the  last  sentence  of  the                                                                    
sectional   analysis,  and   wondered   how  stringent   the                                                                    
provision  was.   He  referred  to  court   cases  in  which                                                                    
individuals were injured and seeking damages.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes  clarified that the  language had  been requested                                                                    
by  the University  of Alaska  General Counsel.  He deferred                                                                    
the  question   about  the  utility  of   the  provision  in                                                                    
protecting the University from lawsuits.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hostina  concurred with Senator Bishop,  and stated that                                                                    
one could  not preclude litigation. He  thought the language                                                                    
would go  some way  toward reducing  damage awards  in state                                                                    
court, but  would perhaps not prohibit  civil rights actions                                                                    
and  potential damages  in federal  court. He  thought there                                                                    
were  potential  ramifications  that  might  stem  from  the                                                                    
failure  to adopt  regulations  or  prohibit firearms  under                                                                    
certain circumstances if people were injured as a result.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:00:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Byrnes  clarified  that  the  UA  General  Counsel  had                                                                    
provided a memo dated February  23, 2016 (copy on file) that                                                                    
discussed the immunity provision in writing.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  asked if the  University had to  deal with                                                                    
the  issue   of  liability  if  an   individual  slipped  on                                                                    
University property in the wintertime.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hostina answered in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  asked  about  other  potential  liability                                                                    
issues such as sharp objects and car accidents.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hostina  confirmed that the University  was charged with                                                                    
responsibility for  day to day  interactions with  people on                                                                    
campus in a way  and to an extent that was  not the case for                                                                    
other entities such as the state or municipalities.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy referred to lines 5  and 6 on page 2 of the                                                                    
bill:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (2) when the behavior of a student or an employee                                                                          
     demonstrates that the student or employee poses a risk                                                                     
     of harm to self or others;                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy asked  how the  demonstration of  risk was                                                                    
determined, and who would make the determination.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina   stated  that  whenever  there   was  employee                                                                    
relation  issues,  student  discipline  issues,  or  student                                                                    
self-harm  issues;  there  were human  resources  officials,                                                                    
student disciplinary officials, or  student care and service                                                                    
team  officials  who  evaluated   the  situations  and  made                                                                    
determinations as to a course  of action. The same processes                                                                    
would be  used to make  the determinations in  question, and                                                                    
the review  of the  processes would apply  to any  review of                                                                    
the interim measures.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:03:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy addressed lines 13 through 15 on page 2:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     (c) The Board of Regents may adopt and enforce                                                                             
     policies                                                                                                                   
     (1) regulating the possession, ownership, use,                                                                             
     carrying, registration, storage, and transportation of                                                                     
     openly carried firearms and knives;                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  wondered if the bill  passed and concealed                                                                    
carry of  firearms was allowed,  but a  student accidentally                                                                    
allowed the  gun or knife  to be viewed; what  would prevent                                                                    
the University  from stating that  the student  violated the                                                                    
open carry regulation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina stated  that the  scenario  would constitute  a                                                                    
violation,  because   the  definition  of   concealed  carry                                                                    
required  that the  weapon not  be observable  without being                                                                    
removed  from its  container. He  continued that  even under                                                                    
current policies, there were  few conflicts with individuals                                                                    
bringing  weapons on  campus.  The  police department  would                                                                    
approach  individuals, inform  them of  the policy,  and ask                                                                    
them  to remove  the  weapon to  another  location that  was                                                                    
permissible.  He was  unsure of  how  a University  response                                                                    
would  be  different  in  the   case  Senator  Dunleavy  was                                                                    
describing,  unless   the  disclosure  was   intentional  or                                                                    
involved a threat.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy wanted  to ensure  that  if an  individual                                                                    
intended to  follow the law  but unintentionally  showed the                                                                    
weapon, a teacher  could not bar the  student from returning                                                                    
to the classroom.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Hostina  thought   the   scenario  was   theoretically                                                                    
possible, and suspected that common sense would prevail.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:05:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly stated  that the  problem he  was trying  to                                                                    
address was  that the University had  restricted an explicit                                                                    
constitutional right.  He asserted  that the  University had                                                                    
to  have legitimate  authority  to  do so,  and  it was  his                                                                    
opinion  that it  did  not. He  continued  that the  current                                                                    
restriction did  not achieve its  purpose. He  asserted that                                                                    
some would argue  that many provisions of the  bill went too                                                                    
far  in favor  of the  University's policies,  and that  the                                                                    
committee  had   tailored  the   bill  to   accommodate  the                                                                    
uniqueness of the University. He  discussed changing to bill                                                                    
to  include  positions  requested   by  the  University.  He                                                                    
expressed that politics was the art of compromise.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  discussed people  being shot in  areas where                                                                    
there were restrictions on handguns,  and used an example of                                                                    
a  recent   shooting  in  San  Bernardino,   California.  He                                                                    
mentioned a shooting at Umpqua  State College in Oregon, and                                                                    
a related  court case.  He listed  additional sites  of mass                                                                    
shootings. He  alleged that  criminals targeted  areas where                                                                    
concealed carry  of firearms  was prohibited.  He questioned                                                                    
the  efficacy of  using signage  to prohibit  criminals from                                                                    
carrying weapons.  He wanted Alaskans  to be able  to defend                                                                    
themselves and exercise their constitutional right.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:10:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly  stated that  it  was  his intention  to  go                                                                    
through  an amendment  process or  develop  a new  committee                                                                    
substitute.  He wanted  to address  the  subject of  college                                                                    
dormitories and put an associated  provision in the bill. He                                                                    
was  concerned about  potential removal  of individuals  who                                                                    
were  a danger  to  themselves or  others,  and mentioned  a                                                                    
Title 47 hold.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  discussed the  fiscal note [FN  1], and                                                                    
read from the analysis section on page 2:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     In  Idaho,  the  institutions projected  spending  $3.7                                                                    
     million  in   expenses  to  increase   campus  security                                                                    
     following  the passage  of the  law allowing  concealed                                                                    
     carry.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Micciche  questioned   the   accuracy  of   the                                                                    
comparison  to Idaho  and asked  if the  Idaho law  had been                                                                    
executed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MATT COOPER,  UA ASSOCIATE  GENERAL COUNCIL,  FAIRBANKS (via                                                                    
teleconference),  stated   that  the  Idaho  law   had  been                                                                    
enacted,  but  did  not  think  the  state  had  information                                                                    
related to  any increased  expenditures as  a result  of the                                                                    
law.  He  had  looked   at  various  campuses  that  allowed                                                                    
concealed  carry, and  reported expenses  ranging from  $3.7                                                                    
million  to estimates  of over  $50  million. He  reiterated                                                                    
that the numbers were estimates,  and thought the first step                                                                    
after the  law was enacted  would be to engage  a consultant                                                                    
or create a study to develop policy and procedures.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  asked if Idaho  was used as  an example                                                                    
because it was more similar to Alaska than other states.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Cooper answered  in the  affirmative,  and stated  that                                                                    
Idaho was also on the lower  end of the spectrum with regard                                                                    
to  estimated costs  of implementing  concealed  carry on  a                                                                    
college campus.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:14:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche asked  about the  University's insurer,                                                                    
and wondered if it had  quantified the increase to insurance                                                                    
premiums in the event that the  bill was passed. He found it                                                                    
interesting that  the right to  legally carry in  a facility                                                                    
would incur a higher cost.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Cooper stated  that the  University  had contacted  its                                                                    
insurance company,  and the company  stated that  the effect                                                                    
on  insurance   premiums  was   dependent  upon   the  final                                                                    
composition of the bill, as  well as what the University did                                                                    
in response to the bill.  He discussed secure access points,                                                                    
which he thought  might be an item of  consideration for the                                                                    
insurance company.  He was unsure  of the  calculations that                                                                    
were  considered by  the  insurance  company in  determining                                                                    
rates.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche  asked  if   there  was  potential  for                                                                    
increased costs or a certainty of increased cost.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Cooper  was  unsure,  but  stated  that  the  insurance                                                                    
company had indicated  that the bill would  likely have some                                                                    
effect on cost.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly referred  to  controlled  access areas,  and                                                                    
asked how the areas were currently secured.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cooper  explained that there were  differences according                                                                    
to  the type  of area.  Some areas  were sensitive  areas on                                                                    
campus  secured  with  card  locks.  He  was  not  aware  of                                                                    
specific security in place for  student services areas other                                                                    
than controlled single access.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  asked how the  bill would change  the method                                                                    
for  dealing with  the  aforementioned  areas, and  wondered                                                                    
about the cost.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hostina explained  that after the bill  was passed, even                                                                    
if  the University  became aware  of  an armed  person in  a                                                                    
domestic violence  situation seeking  to enter  a counseling                                                                    
or  medical center,  it  could not  say  the individual  was                                                                    
violating  policy.  Rather,  the University  would  have  to                                                                    
allow  the individual  to enter  those areas.  Under current                                                                    
University policy (since  it was posted) it  was possible to                                                                    
prohibit individuals  from bringing weapons into  the areas.                                                                    
He concluded  that to be  able to restrict weapons  from the                                                                    
areas  after the  passage of  SB 174,  the University  would                                                                    
have to establish the restricted access areas.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:18:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly read subsection (c)(3) on page 2:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     [The Board of Regents may adopt and enforce policies]                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          (3) prohibiting the possession of firearms or                                                                         
          knives in the restricted access area of                                                                               
          university buildings;                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cooper  thought that the  issue pertained to  what areas                                                                    
were  defined  as  restricted  access,  and  the  definition                                                                    
referred to  areas where visitors were  screened. He thought                                                                    
that the term "screened" would need to be further defined.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Kelly  thought   that  the   bill  provided   the                                                                    
flexibility to determine what kinds  of screening to employ.                                                                    
He did not think it would cost a great deal of money.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  asked if there  was limited  possession of                                                                    
firearms allowed on campus.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina  shared  that  currently  it  was  possible  to                                                                    
possess  firearms  on campus  if  retained  in vehicles,  at                                                                    
authorized events, or in secure storage.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  asked if  signage was  currently effective                                                                    
for the  limited scope of  firearm possession on  campus. He                                                                    
wondered  at the  multi-million  dollar cost  on the  fiscal                                                                    
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina thought  the difference  was  signified by  the                                                                    
lack of policy, and with  the implementation of SB 174 there                                                                    
would be  a need  to establish  restricted access  areas. He                                                                    
discussed consequences of  violating restricted access areas                                                                    
if the bill were to pass.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:22:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  continued   to  discuss  signage,  policy                                                                    
change, and  the potential  cost of  implementing restricted                                                                    
access  areas  on  campus.  He  suggested  that  individuals                                                                    
brought weapons on campus already.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina interpreted  that the  bill  required that  the                                                                    
University  establish   a  restricted  area.   He  discussed                                                                    
compliance with the  law in order to  enforce prohibition of                                                                    
firearms in restricted access areas.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  asked if  the campus could  put up  a sign                                                                    
similar  in  cost   to  the  signs  that   were  already  in                                                                    
existence.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina discussed  the need  establish  a secure  point                                                                    
beyond which visitors  were screened, which was  more than a                                                                    
sign.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Micciche  asked   about  the   consequence  for                                                                    
carrying  a firearm  into a  campus  building under  current                                                                    
laws and regulations.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hostina  stated that  generally a  student was  given an                                                                    
opportunity to place  the firearm in secure storage  or in a                                                                    
vehicle.  If  the  action  persisted,  it  would  result  in                                                                    
disciplinary  sanctions  (administrative sanctions)  through                                                                    
the University.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  asked about the consequence  for a non-                                                                    
student carrying a firearm in the University system.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina stated  that the  initial response  to such  an                                                                    
action would  be the same  as for a student:  the University                                                                    
police would  respond, inform the individual  of the policy,                                                                    
and  give them  an  opportunity  to place  the  weapon in  a                                                                    
secure  storage  or  vehicle.  If  the  individual  were  to                                                                    
decline,  the   individual  would  face   an  administrative                                                                    
process, potentially barring them from campus.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche  compared  the scenario  of  a  student                                                                    
carrying a  firearm on campus versus  a non-student carrying                                                                    
a  firearm on  campus, and  pointed out  that a  student had                                                                    
more  to lose  from  the situation  than  a non-student.  He                                                                    
questioned  the lack  of disincentive  for the  non-student;                                                                    
whereas the  student had real  consequences to face.  He was                                                                    
unsure  that  prohibition of  firearms  on  campus made  the                                                                    
environment safer.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:26:05 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:28:24 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked about  ongoing  costs  of $800,000  as                                                                    
listed on  the fiscal note.  He asked if  other universities                                                                    
in  the  United  States  had   similar  laws  that  governed                                                                    
university campuses.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes related that over  150 different college campuses                                                                    
had  elected  to  allow  some form  of  concealed  carry  of                                                                    
firearms  on campus.  He listed  the eight  different states                                                                    
that mandated public universities  allow for concealed carry                                                                    
on  campus: Colorado,  Idaho,  Kansas, Mississippi,  Oregon,                                                                    
Utah, Wisconsin, and Texas.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson asked  if the  other  universities had  costs                                                                    
similar to what was listed on the fiscal note for SB 174.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes answered in the  negative, and specified that the                                                                    
University of Idaho  did not spend the amount  of money that                                                                    
it  had anticipated  to spend.  He did  not have  additional                                                                    
figures on spending by other universities.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked about  private universities  that might                                                                    
have similar open carry policies.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes  was not  aware of specific  private institutions                                                                    
that allowed  for concealed carry of  firearms. He continued                                                                    
that part  of the  aforementioned 150 college  campuses were                                                                    
private institutions  that had  allowed for  concealed carry                                                                    
on campus.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:31:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly reiterated  that there  were 150  university                                                                    
campuses that allowed for concealed  carry of firearms, none                                                                    
of which  had a resultant  act of violence. He  thought that                                                                    
alcohol  on campus  had caused  more deaths  than the  topic                                                                    
being discussed, and  thought it was possible  that the bill                                                                    
could  save   lives  in  the   future.  He   suggested  that                                                                    
universities were  reluctant to  dispel the  college culture                                                                    
of drinking.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bishop  asked  if  it would  be  permitted  for  an                                                                    
individual to  carry a stun gun  if the bill were  to become                                                                    
law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Byrnes  clarified that the  definition of  "firearms" in                                                                    
the bill did not include stun guns.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop asked if an  individual could currently carry                                                                    
a stun gun on campus, or after the bill was passed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hostina clarified  that current  University policy  did                                                                    
not prohibit  carrying stun guns  on campus, and he  did not                                                                    
think the bill would change the policy.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  commented that a recent  court decision in                                                                    
Massachusetts had struck  down a law that  banned stun guns,                                                                    
and thought it would set a precedent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:35:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN SPALETA,  SELF, FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in opposition to  the bill in any form. She  was a gun owner                                                                    
and employee  of the University  of Alaska  Fairbanks (UAF).                                                                    
She thought the concept that  law abiding citizens with guns                                                                    
could stop criminals with guns  was a fallacy. She discussed                                                                    
statistics from  the Center for  Disease Control  (CDC) that                                                                    
indicated in 33,000  people died in firearm  deaths in 2013,                                                                    
502 of which were from  mass shootings. She compared the CDC                                                                    
statistic to  the 57,000  people in  the United  States that                                                                    
died of flu  and pneumonia during the same  time period. She                                                                    
thought that the bill concerned  a policy choice rather than                                                                    
a constitutional right as alleged.  She discussed the Second                                                                    
Amendment,  and  referenced  an  opinion  by  former  United                                                                    
States Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:36:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DANA  KINZY, SELF,  FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), opposed                                                                    
SB 174. She was an employee  of UAF. She was concerned about                                                                    
individuals possessing firearms in  moments of high emotion.                                                                    
She discussed her  personal history of losing  her father to                                                                    
gun violence. She wondered about  possible amendments to the                                                                    
bill  that might  cover  special  circumstances and  protect                                                                    
employees whose  jobs involved  volatile issues.  She argued                                                                    
that  universities   were  a  place  where   stressors  were                                                                    
abundant.  She  discussed  the student  population  and  the                                                                    
pressures  they  faced.  She thought  she  would  seek  work                                                                    
elsewhere if the bill passed,  where a firearm would not add                                                                    
volatility to the atmosphere.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:39:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICTORIA SMITH, SELF,  FAIRBANKS (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in opposition to the bill. She  stated she was a UAF alumna,                                                                    
staff  member,  and  current   student.  She  recounted  her                                                                    
personal  experience with  gun violence.  She discussed  the                                                                    
environment  of  certain  areas   of  the  university  which                                                                    
engendered  strong feelings,  and  thought  the addition  of                                                                    
firearms  would  endanger  people. She  mentioned  the  high                                                                    
rates  of substance  abuse, sexual  assault, and  suicide in                                                                    
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GINNY REDMOND,  SELF, FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  opposition  to  the  bill. She  discussed  her  work  as                                                                    
Director  of Student  Support Services  at UAF,  and relayed                                                                    
that  she  had  received   her  undergraduate  and  graduate                                                                    
degrees  there. She  discussed high-stress  situations which                                                                    
many students  found themselves in, and  was concerned about                                                                    
her safety and the safety of  her employees if the bill were                                                                    
to pass. She  recounted that there was no time  in her years                                                                    
of employ  at UAF that  she wished  a gun were  present. She                                                                    
discussed her work environment. She  mentioned the idea of a                                                                    
gun  registry  on  campus.  She   commented  on  the  budget                                                                    
shortfall at the university, and  thought the bill would add                                                                    
an additional financial burden.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:44:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOANNA  YOUNG, SELF,  FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  opposition  to  the  bill.  She was  a  student  and  an                                                                    
employee  at  UAF.  She discussed  the  significantly  lower                                                                    
incidence of  shootings in her  home country of  Canada. She                                                                    
opined  that UAF  would be  a much  less desirable  place to                                                                    
attend if concealed carry of firearms were allowed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:46:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HELENA BUURMAN, SELF,  FAIRBANKS (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  opposition to  the bill.  She was  a former  student and                                                                    
present staff member  at UAF. She recounted  a mass shooting                                                                    
in Great Britain that was  followed by firearm restrictions.                                                                    
She discussed  the law enforcement  officers on  campus. She                                                                    
viewed   any   weapons   in  the   workplace   (beyond   law                                                                    
enforcement)  to be  a  liability.  She discussed  budgetary                                                                    
issues at the University.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:47:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REGINE HOCK, SELF, FAIRBANKS  (via teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
opposition  to the  bill. She  was a  teaching and  research                                                                    
professor at UAF. She was  concerned that free discussion of                                                                    
controversial  issues   could  no   longer  take   place  if                                                                    
individuals did not feel safe.  She recounted teaching large                                                                    
classes  of  young students  who  were  often frustrated  by                                                                    
grades and  other pressures.  She mentioned  having students                                                                    
with   obvious  psychological   challenges,  and   had  also                                                                    
observed  students who  were intoxicated  and on  drugs. She                                                                    
was  dismayed  at  the possibility  of  students  with  such                                                                    
issues coming to  her class with weapons.  She observed that                                                                    
none of  the proposed amendments  to the bill had  effect on                                                                    
individuals teaching  and supervising students.  She alleged                                                                    
that the passage  of the bill would cause  her to reconsider                                                                    
her employment at UAF. She  thought that most people did not                                                                    
support the bill.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:50:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS CARR,  SELF, FAIRBANKS (via teleconference),  spoke in                                                                    
opposition to the bill. She  relayed that she was a graduate                                                                    
student at UAF. She shared that  she was a gun owner and gun                                                                    
enthusiast,  but  thought guns  needed  to  be treated  with                                                                    
respect.  She  discussed  a school  shooting  in  Columbine,                                                                    
Colorado.  She thought  the bill  would increase  accidental                                                                    
shootings and  knee-jerk violent actions. She  recounted her                                                                    
experiences with  gun violence and suicide  and thought that                                                                    
having  guns   readily  available  would   increase  harmful                                                                    
incidences.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:52:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AURORA ROTH, SELF, FAIRBANKS  (via teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
opposition  to  the  bill.  She   was  born  and  raised  in                                                                    
Fairbanks  and  her  parents were  professors  at  UAF.  She                                                                    
attended graduate school  at UAF, and thought it  was a safe                                                                    
environment. She  thought there  were few violations  of the                                                                    
existing gun policy at UAF.  She mentioned the high rates of                                                                    
gun  deaths and  suicide in  the state.  She encouraged  the                                                                    
committee  to increase  funding for  mental health  services                                                                    
and gun safety education in the state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:54:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB   BIRD,  2ND   AMENDMENT   TASK   FORCE,  NIKISKI   (via                                                                    
teleconference),  spoke in  support of  the bill.  He was  a                                                                    
long-time  adjunct faculty  at Kenai  Peninsula College.  He                                                                    
thanked   the   legislature   for  trying   to   restore   a                                                                    
constitutional  right. He  discussed recommended  actions in                                                                    
the event of  a campus intruder. He thought that  it was not                                                                    
only guns  that created violence.  He referred to  a faculty                                                                    
training  regarding  an  intruder   alert.  He  discussed  a                                                                    
hypothetical situation  in which  he was required  to defend                                                                    
himself. He  discussed individuals  bringing guns  on campus                                                                    
despite  the restrictions.  He thought  America was  quickly                                                                    
becoming a  police state. He  thought police  protection was                                                                    
an  illusion, and  thought progressives  in the  country had                                                                    
become fascists.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL TUTTLE, SELF, NIKISKI  (via teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
opposition to  the bill. She  was a student and  employee at                                                                    
the  University, and  was Student  Union President  at Kenai                                                                    
Peninsula  College. She  was  concerned  that many  students                                                                    
were subject  to powerful  emotions on  campus and  that the                                                                    
presence of guns might escalate danger.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:59:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  KASHI, SELF,  STERLING (via  teleconference), spoke  in                                                                    
opposition to the bill. His  child was a University student.                                                                    
He  stated  that  he  had  no  ideological  agenda.  He  had                                                                    
represented  many  individuals  in   his  law  practice.  He                                                                    
pointed out that weapons were  prohibited in the legislative                                                                    
information   office,   and   thought   it   was   similarly                                                                    
appropriate to prohibit weapons  on campus. He asserted that                                                                    
college  students  were  less   practical  than  others.  He                                                                    
thought  the university  leadership  was  comprised of  many                                                                    
retired  career military  officers who  were experienced  in                                                                    
the use of  weapons, and thought they  were strongly opposed                                                                    
to the bill.  He referenced studies on reaction  times in an                                                                    
active   shooter  scenario   and  extrapolated   that  armed                                                                    
ordinary  citizens would  not be  of use.  He discussed  the                                                                    
risk  of identifying  the perpetrator  in an  active shooter                                                                    
situation where multiple individuals  were carrying guns. He                                                                    
suggested  looking  at   recommendations  from  the  Federal                                                                    
Bureau of Investigation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:02:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SONIN, SELF,  JUNEAU, spoke in opposition  to the bill.                                                                    
He  did  not understand  the  motivation  for the  bill.  He                                                                    
thought the bill  was inane. He discussed  the importance of                                                                    
education,  and thought  that the  state should  be spending                                                                    
money  by  investing in  the  future  through education.  He                                                                    
discussed   suicide  and   was  concerned   about  knee-jerk                                                                    
reactions if guns were present.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:04:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHAUNA THORTON,  SELF, KENAI (via teleconference),  spoke in                                                                    
opposition to  the bill. She  was a university  student. She                                                                    
thought  concealed  carry permits  were  easy  to obtain  in                                                                    
Alaska. She  pointed out other  locations such as  banks and                                                                    
the  legislative information  offices  that  did not  permit                                                                    
weapons  on   the  premises.   She  expressed   concern  for                                                                    
identifying  victims and  perpetrators  in  an emergency  if                                                                    
multiple  individuals were  carrying  a  gun. She  expressed                                                                    
concern  for staff,  faculty,  and  students. She  discussed                                                                    
trainings at the University.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:07:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE  SHULTZ,  UNIVERSITY  OF ALASKA  ANCHORAGE,  ANCHORAGE                                                                    
(via teleconference),  spoke in  opposition to the  bill. He                                                                    
was  the   Vice  Chancellor  for  Student   Affairs  at  the                                                                    
University  of  Alaska  Anchorage (UAA).  He  discussed  his                                                                    
work,  which  included  oversight of  on-campus  residential                                                                    
communities,  physical and  mental health  services, student                                                                    
activities, and  the student code  of conduct.  He recounted                                                                    
situations  on  campus  that included  verbal  and  physical                                                                    
assaults,   harassment,  suicide,   and  intoxication;   and                                                                    
thought that such situations could  have easily escalated in                                                                    
the  presence  of  firearms.  He  referred  to  the  current                                                                    
firearms  policy on  University campuses.  He discussed  the                                                                    
student  suicide rate  and thought  the bill  would have  an                                                                    
adverse effect. He related his  personal experience with gun                                                                    
violence. He recounted  that he and his  staff had responded                                                                    
to 19 student  suicide attempts and 29  incidents of suicide                                                                    
ideation.  He   considered  that   the  bill   would  affect                                                                    
retention rates as well as effective teaching and learning.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:10:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GREG STODDARD,  SELF, ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  support of  the bill.  He thought  the committee  should                                                                    
vote to  uphold the  constitutional right  to bear  arms. He                                                                    
did not see any fiscal  problems associated with the passage                                                                    
of  the bill.  He discussed  an active  shooter training  on                                                                    
campus. He thought the board  of regents had overstepped its                                                                    
bounds  in  prohibiting  firearms on  campus.  He  discussed                                                                    
previous changes  to the firearms  policy. He  thought there                                                                    
should  be no  permit required  for a  firearm, but  did not                                                                    
object to required training.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:14:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BUTCH MOORE,  SELF, BIG LAKE (via  teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
opposition to the  bill. He recounted that  his daughter had                                                                    
been  murdered by  her boyfriend.  His daughter  had been  a                                                                    
student at UAA. He reported that  in 2014 there had been 145                                                                    
gun  deaths in  the state,  and 79  of the  deaths had  been                                                                    
suicides.  He continued  that the  majority of  the suicides                                                                    
had been  individuals aged 18 to  26. He wanted to  find out                                                                    
how  many gun  deaths  there were  on  college campuses.  He                                                                    
thought suicide was a larger  concern in the state than mass                                                                    
shootings. He did not think  the legislature should put guns                                                                    
in  the workplace  of  University staff  when  they did  not                                                                    
allow   guns  in   legislative  offices.   He  discussed   a                                                                    
hypothetical scenario  regarding young  people with  guns in                                                                    
an emotional situation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:18:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  COONS, SELF,  PALMER  (via  teleconference), spoke  in                                                                    
support  of  the  bill.  He  referred  to  comments  by  the                                                                    
previous testifier  and thought  many of  the aforementioned                                                                    
145  gun deaths  in the  state were  criminal in  nature. He                                                                    
referred to Vice-Chair Micciche's comments  on page 2 of the                                                                    
fiscal note,  regarding expenditures in Ohio.  He had called                                                                    
the Ohio State Legislature and  found that the state had not                                                                    
funded  increased  security  and   the  university  had  not                                                                    
requested  additional  funding.  He discussed  requests  for                                                                    
increased  security  on the  fiscal  note  and analyzed  the                                                                    
current  security components  in the  University system.  He                                                                    
remarked  that individuals  opposing the  bill feared  their                                                                    
fellow man.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:21:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ED MARTIN, SELF, COOPER  LANDING (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in support  of the bill. He  read an excerpt on  fear of the                                                                    
unknown and irrational fear. He  thought people that opposed                                                                    
the bill  did not have  self-esteem and confidence  in their                                                                    
lives. He  thought people might  feel safe  within academia.                                                                    
He discussed  parenting and personality. He  thought that if                                                                    
students were  showing up  drunk in  school, they  should be                                                                    
removed from campus.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:24:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHELAN  SCHREIFELS,  SELF, ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke in  opposition to the  bill. She  was a UAA  School of                                                                    
Engineering alumni. Her  daughter was a student  at UAA, and                                                                    
had  suffered a  gunshot wound.  She  was a  gun owner.  She                                                                    
discussed  university crime  statistics, which  were largely                                                                    
related  to  drugs  and  alcohol.  She  was  concerned  that                                                                    
volatility of  student emotion in combination  with firearms                                                                    
would be problematic. She discussed  groups in opposition to                                                                    
the bill.  She thought  the bill jeopardized  public safety,                                                                    
and took  issue with the  additional expenses that  would be                                                                    
incurred if the bill passed.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:28:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE PIERCE, SELF, KASILOF  (via teleconference), spoke in                                                                    
opposition  to the  bill.  He  thought individuals  carrying                                                                    
guns would intimidate students.  He discussed alcohol use at                                                                    
colleges.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:29:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROSS MULLINS,  SELF, CORDOVA (via teleconference),  spoke in                                                                    
opposition  to  the  bill.  He   believed  the  bill  was  a                                                                    
manifestation of  the NRA. He  thought that such  ideas were                                                                    
destroying society. He thought the  bill would do nothing to                                                                    
ensure  the safety  or  future  intellectual development  of                                                                    
students.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:30:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT JERMONE,  SELF, FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in opposition  to the bill.  He was a UAF  graduate student,                                                                    
and  a hunter  and  gun  owner. He  thought  the bill  would                                                                    
inhibit the free flow of  ideas by creating an atmosphere of                                                                    
fear  and intimidation.  He asserted  that college  students                                                                    
were untrained and could not  react the way a police officer                                                                    
could  react in  an  emergency. He  thought  the bill  would                                                                    
jeopardize the  recruitment of  quality faculty,  staff, and                                                                    
administrators.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:31:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  RAYWALT,  SELF,   ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of the  bill. He referred  to comments                                                                    
about  firearms  on  campus by  previous  UA  President  Pat                                                                    
Gamble. He  discussed mass shootings in  schools. He thought                                                                    
university police forces  were unable to be  effective in an                                                                    
active shooter scenario. He referred  to the settlement that                                                                    
the  State  of  Virginia  had offered  to  families  of  the                                                                    
victims of a  shooting at a university.  He discussed police                                                                    
response time  statistics. He thought  lives could  be saved                                                                    
if  more  individuals  were  armed,  and  referred  to  mass                                                                    
murders that  were prevented by armed  citizens. He referred                                                                    
to statistics  that crime rates  had dropped in  areas where                                                                    
more individuals  had permits.  He emphasized that  the bill                                                                    
would  allow  concealed  carry of  weapons,  thereby  others                                                                    
would have  no knowledge of  the weapon, and  the individual                                                                    
would be  required to receive training.  He thought gun-free                                                                    
zones were attractive to criminals.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:36:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JONATHAN  TAYLOR,  PRESIDENT,  UNION  OF  STUDENTS,  STUDENT                                                                    
GOVERNMENT PRESIDENT, ANCHORAGE  (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in opposition to  the bill. He thought the  University had a                                                                    
compelling interest to heavily  regulate firearms on campus.                                                                    
He alleged that university faculty  in Texas and Kansas were                                                                    
being   told  to   change   curriculum   content  to   avoid                                                                    
inflammatory   topics  that   might   incite  violence.   He                                                                    
discussed the  likelihood of an  armed student  deterring an                                                                    
armed criminal,  and mentioned  a shooting  at a  college in                                                                    
Oregon.  He   thought  the  ubiquity   of  guns   on  campus                                                                    
contributed to a negative educational environment.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:39:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROB   CLIFT,   AK    LIBERTARIAN   PARTY,   ANCHORAGE   (via                                                                    
teleconference), spoke  in support  of the bill.  He relayed                                                                    
that  the Alaska  Libertarian Party  examined all  pieces of                                                                    
proposed  legislation to  determine  if it  would extend  or                                                                    
curtail individual  liberty, and he  thought SB 174  did the                                                                    
former.  He  discussed  the   concealed  carry  of  firearms                                                                    
outside the university setting. He  claimed to be carrying a                                                                    
weapon   at  his   present  location   in  the   legislative                                                                    
information office.  He thought the issue  was about rights,                                                                    
and  that a  ban on  campus  was anomalous.  He referred  to                                                                    
recent amendments to the bill as "barnacles."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:41:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CEEZAR  MARTINSON,  SELF,  ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke  in   support  of  the   bill.  He  referred   to  the                                                                    
constitution and  the right  to bear  arms. He  thought that                                                                    
the University's current policy  on firearms was illegal. He                                                                    
thought there were  students and faculty on  campus who were                                                                    
currently  carrying concealed  weapons despite  the ban.  He                                                                    
thought that the  policy prohibiting guns on  campus did not                                                                    
create safety.  He mentioned other campuses  and states that                                                                    
had legalized concealed  carry, and noted there  had been no                                                                    
measurable  increase  in  gun-related violence.  He  thought                                                                    
there  had been  a  decrease in  certain  crimes on  college                                                                    
campuses that  allowed for concealed  carry of  firearms. He                                                                    
thought that  the arguments against  the bill were  based on                                                                    
fear. He questioned the fiscal  note from the University. He                                                                    
thought that  other states had  demonstrated that  there was                                                                    
not  a   significant  cost   to  universities   by  allowing                                                                    
concealed carry of firearms.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:46:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN BELLERIVE,  SELF, ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in support of  the bill. He stated that he  was a student at                                                                    
UAA, a  veteran and a member  of many clubs. He  thought the                                                                    
bill  was in  aid  of protecting  constitutional rights  and                                                                    
referred   to  Article   1,  Section   19   of  the   Alaska                                                                    
Constitution, which pertained to the right to bear arms.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:47:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GENEVIEVE MINA, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in  opposition to  the  bill.  She was  student  at UAA  and                                                                    
intended  on  pursuing  graduate education  there.  She  was                                                                    
concerned about how  the bill would affect  her future years                                                                    
on  campus.  She  discussed  the State  of  Texas,  and  the                                                                    
possibility  of instructors  at  the  University of  Houston                                                                    
having to  change their curriculum  in order not  to discuss                                                                    
controversial topics  that may lead to  strong emotions. She                                                                    
thought that the bill could  stifle intellectual freedom and                                                                    
put students  at risk outside  the classroom.  She mentioned                                                                    
alcohol and  drug abuse. She  discussed the fiscal  note and                                                                    
anticipated costs to the University.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:49:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE SMITH, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in  support of  the  bill.  He was  a  military veteran  and                                                                    
employee of  UAA. He  discussed his  work with  students and                                                                    
training  that   staff  had  received  for   active  shooter                                                                    
situations. He  discussed the  constitutional right  to keep                                                                    
and bear arms. He referenced  arguments against the bill. He                                                                    
thought that his comments would  not be well received by his                                                                    
colleagues.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:51:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ZACHARY   CHERRY,   SELF,  WASILLA   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified in  support of the bill.  He was a student  at UAA                                                                    
and a military  veteran. He thought that  the University had                                                                    
infringed upon his  rights. He did not agree  that there was                                                                    
a major safety concern associated with the bill.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:53:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEIGHAN  GONZALES,  SELF,  ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke in  opposition to  the bill.  She was  concerned about                                                                    
her  safety  as  a  student.   She  discussed  her  personal                                                                    
struggles.  She related  that the  potential for  guns being                                                                    
allowed on campus made her  want to attend school elsewhere.                                                                    
She asked  the committee  to consider  the fiscal  impact of                                                                    
the bill. She discussed  another institution that had passed                                                                    
a  similar   law  that   resulted  in   increased  insurance                                                                    
premiums,  and  thought  the  cost would  be  passed  on  to                                                                    
students.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:57:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STACEY LUCASON, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in opposition to  the bill. She was a student  member of the                                                                    
board   of   regents,   but  was   not   testifying   as   a                                                                    
representative of  the board. She  thought it  was important                                                                    
to  discuss   the  role  of   the  board  in   managing  the                                                                    
University,  and   urged  the  committee  to   consider  the                                                                    
question of  how to balance the  role of the board  with the                                                                    
rights of Alaskans.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:59:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  SWETZOF, SELF,  ANCHORAGE (via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in support  of the bill. He  referred to a mass  shooting in                                                                    
Newtown,  Connecticut; and  thought  there may  have been  a                                                                    
different  outcome if  there had  been  firearms carried  by                                                                    
staff at the school. He  referred to testimony of a previous                                                                    
speaker and  discussed the  right to bear  arms. He  read an                                                                    
excerpt  from  the  Alaska Constitution  pertaining  to  the                                                                    
individual right to keep and  bear arms. He pointed out that                                                                    
the  University was  a political  subdivision of  the state,                                                                    
and  thought it  was in  conflict with  the constitution  by                                                                    
prohibiting firearms. He referred  to previous dialogue with                                                                    
an  attorney for  the University.  He stated  that he  would                                                                    
bring a firearm on campus if  he so desired, and thought the                                                                    
University had no right to prohibit it.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:02:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GRAYSON  SPILLER,  SELF,   ANCHORAGE  (via  teleconference),                                                                    
testified in support of the bill.  He was a student and felt                                                                    
that he  was being denied  his constitutional right  to keep                                                                    
and  bear arms.  He discussed  the eventuality  of a  terror                                                                    
threat on  campus. He discussed emergency  response time. He                                                                    
discussed student support for the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly handed the gavel to Vice-Chair Micciche.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:04:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD   BURK,   SELF,   ANCHORAGE   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in support  of the  bill.  He discussed  personal                                                                    
protection and relayed  that he was a  veteran. He discussed                                                                    
arguments  against concealed  carry in  general. He  thought                                                                    
there  was a  lack of  statistics to  demonstrate that  law-                                                                    
abiding citizens  had been  led to commit  gun crimes  in an                                                                    
atmosphere with  more firearms. He  questioned the  board of                                                                    
regents' right to implement  policies that were inconsistent                                                                    
with  state  law.  He  asked   the  committee  to  pass  the                                                                    
legislation  and give  his children  (students  at UAA)  the                                                                    
freedom to protect themselves.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:07:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CARL   KANCIR,   SELF,   ANCHORAGE   (via   teleconference),                                                                    
testified  in favor  of the  bill. He  wondered if  the bill                                                                    
would  allow  all people  to  carry  a concealed  weapon  on                                                                    
campus.  He  thought the  bill  allowed  people to  carry  a                                                                    
concealed weapon without fear of being penalized.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche clarified  that  his role  was to  hear                                                                    
testimony rather  than to interpret  the law, but  he stated                                                                    
that he had the same understanding.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Kancir gave  an  example that  his  current firearm  he                                                                    
could shoot  nine people within three  seconds. He recounted                                                                    
a  personal  story  of  carrying guns  in  his  vehicle.  He                                                                    
discussed  the  ability  of  campus  police  to  distinguish                                                                    
between a  student with  a firearm and  a perpetrator  in an                                                                    
active shooter scenario.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:10:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CINDY MOORE, SELF, BIG  LAKE (via teleconference), testified                                                                    
in opposition  to the  bill. She  relayed that  her daughter                                                                    
was a UAA  student and had been killed by  gun violence. She                                                                    
did  not believe  that youth  always had  the knowledge  and                                                                    
good  judgement  required  to  responsibly  carry  concealed                                                                    
weapons. She discussed high-risk  behaviors on campuses that                                                                    
she  considered to  be predictive  of violence.  She thought                                                                    
that  normal  conflicts  could  be  exacerbated  to  include                                                                    
greater  violence   if  more  firearms  were   present.  She                                                                    
discussed  the rate  of  gun  deaths in  the  year that  her                                                                    
daughter  was killed.  She  suggested it  was  a fallacy  to                                                                    
infer that  guns were needed  to protect students  from mass                                                                    
shootings. She  discussed the efficacy of  armed students in                                                                    
a gunfight.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:14:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Micciche  discussed   the   schedule  for   the                                                                    
following day and noted that the meeting was cancelled.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB  174  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 174 Opposition Hawn.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Kenai Peninsula College Council Resolution Opposition.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Laura.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Letter Packet 2.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Letters Packet 1.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Letters Packet 3.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Patty.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Ronald.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Swiderski.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition to guns on campus.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Support Emails 3.7.16.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Support Emails 3.15.16.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Supporting Docs Kleck Tark - Impact of Victim Self Protection (Nat Inst of Justice April 04) Abstract.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 USUAA Resolution #16-18 Opposing SB174.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB 174 Opposition Letters Packet 4.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174
SB174 Sectional Analysis version N.pdf SFIN 3/24/2016 1:30:00 PM
SB 174