Legislature(2015 - 2016)SENATE FINANCE 532

04/04/2016 09:00 AM FINANCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Moved CSSB 147(HSS) Out of Committee
Moved CSSB 170(RES) Out of Committee
Moved CSSB 174(FIN) Out of Committee
SENATE BILL NO. 174                                                                                                           
     "An  Act relating  to the  regulation  of firearms  and                                                                    
     knives by the University of Alaska."                                                                                       
9:40:34 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Kelly MOVED to ADOPT proposed committee substitute                                                                     
for SB 174, Work Draft 29-LS1306\I (Martin, 3/29/16).                                                                           
Co-Chair MacKinnon OJBECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
JOE BYRNES, STAFF, SENATOR PETE KELLY, read from summary of                                                                     
changes (copy on file):                                                                                                         
     Page 2                                                                                                                     
     Under AS 14.40.173(b) which adds  exceptions of how the                                                                    
     Board   of  Regents   may   regulate  the   possession,                                                                    
     ownership,  use,  carrying, registration,  storage,  or                                                                    
     transportation of concealed handguns or knives                                                                             
     ·  When the  behavior  of  a  student  or  an  employee                                                                    
        demonstrates that the student or employee poses a                                                                       
        risk of harm to self or others [Version N, Page 2,                                                                      
        lines 5-6]                                                                                                              
     ·  In  university  facilities  where  health  services,                                                                    
        counseling services, or other services related to                                                                       
        sexual harassment or violence are provided [Version                                                                     
        N, Page 2, lines 8-9]                                                                                                   
     ·  In  university  facilities  during  adjudication  of                                                                    
        staff or student disciplinary issues [Version N,                                                                        
        Page 2, lines 10-11]                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Kelly pointed out that some of language had been                                                                       
moved to another section and had not necessarily been                                                                           
removed from the legislation.                                                                                                   
9:42:38 AM                                                                                                                    
Mr. Byrnes continued to read from the summary of changes:                                                                       
     Page 2, Line 8                                                                                                             
     From the language which allows  the Board of Regents to                                                                    
     adopt  and enforce  policies  regarding openly  carried                                                                    
     firearms, removes the  terms "possession," "ownership,"                                                                    
     "use,"  "registration,"   "storage,"  "transportation,"                                                                    
     and "knives"                                                                                                               
     Page 2, Lines 15-18                                                                                                        
     In the  language which allows  the Board of  Regents to                                                                    
     adopt  and enforce  policies restricting  possession of                                                                    
     firearms  and  knives   in  "restricted  access  areas"                                                                    
     (defined  on  page  4),  adds  the  words:  "which  may                                                                    
     include   university-designated   rooms  where   sexual                                                                    
     assault,  sexual harassment,  or domestic  violence are                                                                    
     investigated and  victim assistance is provided  and in                                                                    
     university-designated  rooms   during  adjudication  of                                                                    
    staff or student disciplinary issues and disputes"                                                                          
     Page 2, Lines 21-31 and Page 3, Lines 1-2                                                                                  
     Adds a  new subsection that  specifies if the  Board of                                                                    
     Regents adopts  a policy regulating concealed  carry in                                                                    
     dormitories, it must require:                                                                                              
        1. If the person is not a resident of the dormitory,                                                                    
          the owner shall carry the handgun at all times                                                                        
        2. If the person is a resident of the dormitory:                                                                        
             a. The handgun is stored in an owner provided                                                                      
               lockbox at all times he or she is not                                                                            
               carrying the handgun                                                                                             
             b. The owner is responsible for ensuring the                                                                       
               storage is in compliance with state law                                                                          
             c. The owner may not leave the handgun in a                                                                        
               lockbox unattended in a dormitory room for                                                                       
               more than one day                                                                                                
             d. The owner must declare to the university                                                                        
               that the owner intends to keep the weapon in                                                                     
               the owner's dormitory room                                                                                       
9:44:17 AM                                                                                                                    
Mr. Byrnes continued to read from the summary of changes:                                                                       
     Page 3, Lines 3-11                                                                                                         
     Specifies  that the  university  may privately  collect                                                                    
     and  store  (for  not more  than  a  year)  information                                                                    
     regarding a  student who  intends to  keep a  weapon in                                                                    
     the student's  dormitory room.  The university  may use                                                                    
     that  information  when  making housing  decisions  for                                                                    
     students  who  expressed they  don't  want  to share  a                                                                    
     dormitory room  with a person who  possesses a firearm.                                                                    
     The university  may not  segregate students  who intend                                                                    
     to  keep a  weapon in  a dormitory  room to  a separate                                                                    
     building, floor, or area of the university.                                                                                
     Page 3, Lines 16-19                                                                                                        
     Specifies  the  university   may  not  require  written                                                                    
     permission  before a  person may  possess a  firearm on                                                                    
     campus and they may  not adopt implied consent policies                                                                    
     regarding restricted  possession of  concealed handguns                                                                    
     or knives                                                                                                                  
     Page 3, Lines 30-31                                                                                                        
     Adds a definition of "lockbox"  to mean: a metal, hard-                                                                    
     sided container designed to  enclose or encase handguns                                                                    
     with a built-in locking mechanism.                                                                                         
9:45:24 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Dunleavy read from page 2, line 1 and page 2, line                                                                      
7 respectively:                                                                                                                 
     The Board  of Regents may not  regulate the possession,                                                                    
     ownership,  use,  carrying, registration,  storage,  or                                                                    
     transportation   of  concealed   handguns  or   knives,                                                                    
     (2)  in  student  dormitories or  other  shared  living                                                                    
     quarters; or                                                                                                               
Senator Dunleavy asked if the  bill language on line 25 ["is                                                                    
not a resident  of the dormitory, the owner  shall carry the                                                                    
handgun  at  all  times;"]  prevented  the  university  from                                                                    
coming up with a regulation banning it from the dorm.                                                                           
Mr. Byrnes read  language on lines 21 and 22  stated "If the                                                                    
Board  of  Regents adopts  a  policy  under (b)(2)  of  this                                                                    
section, the  policy must  require that, if  the owner  of a                                                                    
concealed  handgun..."  The   subsection  listed  subsequent                                                                    
Senator Dunleavy referred  back to the language  he had read                                                                    
from  page 2,  line  1 and  page 2,  line  7. He  questioned                                                                    
whether the Board of Regents  could ban handguns outright as                                                                    
a result of Section (b)(2).                                                                                                     
9:47:01 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Kelly  thought that  Senator Dunleavy  was pointing                                                                    
out  that under  subsection (d)  the legislature  determined                                                                    
how the Board of Regents  may regulate, which was consistent                                                                    
with the major portions of the bill.                                                                                            
Mr.  Byrnes  emphasized  that  the  language  in  subsection                                                                    
(b)(2) allowed an exception to  how the Board of Regents may                                                                    
regulate concealed weapons. He  elaborated that if the board                                                                    
adopted the  regulations they were required  to conform with                                                                    
the language in subsection (d)  beginning on page 2, line 23                                                                    
through page 3, line 4.                                                                                                         
Co-Chair MacKinnon  asked why  the bill  did not  include an                                                                    
effective  date.  She  was concerned  about  a  university's                                                                    
ability to implement appropriate  student safety policies in                                                                    
time if  the bill was  adopted during the  current semester.                                                                    
She detailed there were  summer semesters where universities                                                                    
may have fewer students on  campuses. She mentioned the fall                                                                    
semester of 2017.                                                                                                               
Mr. Byrnes  stated that initially  the bill had  contained a                                                                    
delayed  effective   date  that  would   have  theoretically                                                                    
extended the  effective date of  the bill to 120  days after                                                                    
the  bill signing.  The  language had  been  removed in  the                                                                    
Senate Education  Committee. He  explained the  language had                                                                    
been removed  to prevent a  delay of a student's  ability to                                                                    
possess a handgun on campus.  The bill sponsor's expectation                                                                    
was   the  university   would   adopt  conforming   policies                                                                    
9:49:27 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  asked if the  Board of Regents met  on a                                                                    
monthly or quarterly basis.                                                                                                     
Co-Chair Kelly responded  that the Board of  Regents met six                                                                    
times per  year and  also met via  teleconference throughout                                                                    
the year.                                                                                                                       
Co-Chair  MacKinnon   had  a  concern  that   there  was  no                                                                    
effective date.  She reasoned if  the legislature  was going                                                                    
to  change  policy the  university  needed  to be  given  an                                                                    
opportunity to put the policy in place.                                                                                         
9:50:01 AM                                                                                                                    
Senator Hoffman  referred to  page 2,  line 31  and wondered                                                                    
why  there was  a specification  that a  handgun may  not be                                                                    
left unattended  in a dormitory  room lockbox for  more than                                                                    
one day. He  opined it would be very difficult  to prove the                                                                    
Mr. Byrnes answered that one  of the concerns the university                                                                    
had  raised with  weapons being  inside dormitory  rooms was                                                                    
related  to  the  possibility  of  theft.  By  limiting  the                                                                    
presence  of a  handgun  inside  a lockbox  to  one day,  it                                                                    
decreased the  likelihood the handgun  could be stolen  if a                                                                    
student  was  away  for  a prolonged  period  of  time.  The                                                                    
language was designed to ensure  a student handgun owner was                                                                    
accountable  for   the  weapon  and  that   the  weapon  was                                                                    
accounted for at all times.                                                                                                     
Co-Chair  Kelly thought  it was  important  that gun  owners                                                                    
were expected  to be  responsible and  in possession  of the                                                                    
gun  as   much  as  practically  possible.   He  noted  that                                                                    
sometimes students  left campus  for extended  periods (e.g.                                                                    
due to a  death in their family). The goal  was to prevent a                                                                    
situation where the  gun was in a dormitory,  not in control                                                                    
of the owner,  for prolonged periods of time  where it could                                                                    
be stolen  or used by  others. He  thought that the  one day                                                                    
requirement was fairly strict, but  it was not strict in the                                                                    
gun world  where a person was  expected to be in  control of                                                                    
the weapons they own.                                                                                                           
9:52:01 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon knew that  other college campuses allowed                                                                    
guns  on  campus, and  wondered  how  the bill  deviated  or                                                                    
conformed to the law in State of Utah.                                                                                          
Mr.  Byrnes  conveyed  that  8  different  states  had  laws                                                                    
requiring  public institutions  and  public universities  to                                                                    
allow  students or  faculty to  carry  concealed weapons  on                                                                    
campus.   Additionally,  over   150  college   campuses  had                                                                    
policies that allowed  concealed carry on campus  - he noted                                                                    
it may  not be public institutions.  He noted that of  the 8                                                                    
states,  the  policies  in  Oregon  and  Colorado  had  been                                                                    
instituted judicially when the  courts found that university                                                                    
gun bans were  in conflict with concealed carry  laws in the                                                                    
state. In places the law  had been instituted legislatively,                                                                    
there   were  different   carve   outs   depending  on   the                                                                    
jurisdiction.  He explained  that  similar to  SB 174,  Utah                                                                    
allowed for  restricted access areas  on campus,  which were                                                                    
designated  by the  university. He  elaborated a  university                                                                    
may  select a  restricted area,  but there  was a  screening                                                                    
process in  order to  ensure the area  was weapon  free. The                                                                    
provision was across all public  buildings and was inclusive                                                                    
of Utah's  universities. He stated  that in other  places it                                                                    
was people that carry  concealed handgun licenses or permits                                                                    
depending on the jurisdiction.                                                                                                  
Mr. Byrnes  continued that the  systems were  not completely                                                                    
analogous all  the way through;  they all allowed  some form                                                                    
of concealed  carry on campus,  but the  mechanisms differed                                                                    
between jurisdictions.                                                                                                          
9:54:49 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair  Kelly  reiterated  that  with 150  campuses  in  8                                                                    
states there  were all different  laws. The point of  SB 174                                                                    
and some  other campuses  outside Alaska had  been concerned                                                                    
about  dormitories,  sexual  assault, and  other.  The  bill                                                                    
tried  to  accommodate  the  university,  which  had  common                                                                    
complaints with  other universities  who carry out  the same                                                                    
mission. He relayed it would  be difficult to answer how the                                                                    
other universities  dealt with the issue  because there were                                                                    
150  campuses   and  each  state  had   different  laws.  He                                                                    
concluded it would look different in each state.                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  wondered if  there was  any commonality                                                                    
with  different state  laws regarding  dormitory storage  of                                                                    
handguns.  He understood  Senator Hoffman's  point that  the                                                                    
one-day  requirement was  unenforceable. He  also understood                                                                    
the intent  of the  requirement. He wondered  how successful                                                                    
programs had been related to dorm storage.                                                                                      
Co-Chair Kelly  stated that currently "they  just say 'don't                                                                    
do that.'"  He thought it was  currently unenforceable. They                                                                    
were relying on  that law-abiding gun owners  would obey the                                                                    
regulations as  they were currently expected  to obey. There                                                                    
really  was no  enforcement  currently.  He reiterated  that                                                                    
essentially there  was merely  a sign  specifying not  to do                                                                    
something.  The  genesis of  the  bill  was that  "bad  guys                                                                    
ignore those  signs and  the good guys  do." The  bill would                                                                    
enable  the university  to regulate.  He  supposed any  time                                                                    
requirement would  be difficult to enforce  because it would                                                                    
be hard to prove; however,  there was currently no other way                                                                    
of enforcement either.                                                                                                          
9:57:14 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon referred to page 3, lines 12 and 13:                                                                         
     The Board of Regents, the University of Alaska, and                                                                        
     any officers, employees, or agents of the University                                                                       
     of Alaska may not                                                                                                          
     (1) except as provided in (e) of this section, create                                                                      
     a database or registry of persons who possess a                                                                            
     firearm on campus;                                                                                                         
     (2) require written permission before a person may                                                                         
     possess a firearm on campus; or                                                                                            
     (3) adopt an implied consent policy regarding                                                                              
     restricted possession of concealed handguns or knives.                                                                     
Co-Chair  MacKinnon   wondered  how  the   university  would                                                                    
implement the policy (without a  database) related to when a                                                                    
student requests not to be near another student with a gun.                                                                     
Mr.  Byrnes stated  that the  bill was  drafted to  be self-                                                                    
consistent  by Legislative  Legal  Services. Language  about                                                                    
how  the university  may collect  and store  the information                                                                    
was included  on page 3,  lines 3 through 11.  The intention                                                                    
was to balance  an individual's privacy (who  chose to carry                                                                    
a  handgun on  campus) with  the need  of the  university to                                                                    
make  housing decisions  for students  who may  not want  to                                                                    
room  with  a  person  in   possession  of  a  handgun.  The                                                                    
intention  of the  language on  lines  3 through  11 was  to                                                                    
create an exception.                                                                                                            
Co-Chair  Kelly  stated  that  the  idea  was  to  keep  the                                                                    
university from creating a gun  registry. He detailed if the                                                                    
university was  able to  keep the data,  over time  it would                                                                    
essentially be  keeping a database  of gun  ownership, which                                                                    
was  not  his  intent.   However,  there  were  some  unique                                                                    
circumstances particularly  in dormitories  the universities                                                                    
needed to  be able to  manage the situation when  people did                                                                    
not want  to room with  people with guns. The  exception was                                                                    
allowed for a period of time - included in subsection (c).                                                                      
9:59:44 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon thought there  was a contradiction in the                                                                    
bill language.  She questioned whether subsection  (c) would                                                                    
supersede  subsection  (f).   She  detailed  subsection  (f)                                                                    
specified  the university  may not  create  a database.  She                                                                    
supported   the  concept   of  destroying   the  information                                                                    
identifying individuals who were carrying guns.                                                                                 
Mr.  Byrnes  referred  to  language   on  page  3,  line  4,                                                                    
"regarding a student who intends  to keep a weapon" and page                                                                    
3, line 14, "persons who  possess a firearm." He observed it                                                                    
was  perhaps where  a  split existed.  He  detailed that  by                                                                    
saying  a  person  intended  to  carry  a  firearm  did  not                                                                    
necessarily mean  they possessed  one. He stated  the desire                                                                    
was to protect the privacy  of individuals choosing to carry                                                                    
a firearm on campus.                                                                                                            
Senator Dunleavy interpreted the  bill language to mean that                                                                    
incoming college  students would  be matched  with dormitory                                                                    
roommates   via   a   questionnaire.   He   considered   the                                                                    
questionnaire   as  a   possible   mechanism  for   matching                                                                    
students.  He  furthered  it  would   not  be  considered  a                                                                    
registry, but  a matchup for  the dorm. He continued  that a                                                                    
student  would  not  be required  to  demonstrate  they  had                                                                    
registered or  otherwise make note they  possessed a firearm                                                                    
on  campus.  He  reiterated  he believed  the  language  was                                                                    
merely to match students with roommates.                                                                                        
10:02:05 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair Kelly stated  that he would look  into the possible                                                                    
contradiction with  Legislative Legal Services  to determine                                                                    
if an inconsistency existed.                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  thought Senator  Dunleavy had  offered a                                                                    
route that may work effectively.                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, the CS was ADOPTED.                                                                                          
MIKE  HOSTINA,   GENERAL  COUNSEL,  UNIVERSITY   OF  ALASKA,                                                                    
FAIRBANKS  (via   teleconference),  provided   concerns  and                                                                    
comments.  He noted  that the  CS had  removed a  provision,                                                                    
which  would   have  allowed  the  university   to  regulate                                                                    
firearms in  cases where a  process determined a  student or                                                                    
employee  posed  a  risk  of  harm to  self  or  others.  He                                                                    
stressed  it caused  enormous concern  because  it posed  an                                                                    
obstacle to the university  dealing with those very specific                                                                    
situations (e.g.  when a  student was  suicidal, assaultive,                                                                    
and other) and  left the university with  limited options of                                                                    
excluding  the person  from  campus or  trying  to obtain  a                                                                    
Title  47  commitment,  which  was  rare.  The  concern  was                                                                    
significant related to dealing  with troubled individuals on                                                                    
campus,  which was  a common  occurrence. Additionally,  the                                                                    
bill  would provide  some ability  to  regulate firearms  in                                                                    
certain areas,  but they  would be required  to be  beyond a                                                                    
secure  point   where  visitors   would  be   screened.  The                                                                    
university   appreciated  the   ability  to   establish  the                                                                    
restricted  areas, but  it was  unclear  what constituted  a                                                                    
secure  point. He  noted that  depending on  the outcome  it                                                                    
could be expensive  and could mean litigation  since the law                                                                    
was unclear.                                                                                                                    
10:05:02 AM                                                                                                                   
Mr.  Hostina  highlighted  concern  that  because  the  bill                                                                    
currently  allowed  the  university  to  regulate  only  the                                                                    
carrying  of long  guns,  it was  not  clear the  university                                                                    
could prohibit concealed  carry of a long gun  or storage of                                                                    
a long  gun in a  dormitory room.  He continued that  it was                                                                    
not clear  whether the university  may regulate  firearms in                                                                    
dorms. Based  on testimony  by Mr.  Byrnes, he  believed the                                                                    
university would  be required  to permit  concealed handguns                                                                    
in dorms  with only  the restrictions  in subsection  (d) of                                                                    
the bill.                                                                                                                       
Mr. Hostina addressed  the inconsistency between subsections                                                                    
(e)  and (f).  He  surmised the  discrepancy  may be  solved                                                                    
simply by  including language "in (f)(1)  except as provided                                                                    
in section (e)."                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  asked  for  verification  the  university                                                                    
currently allowed  guns on campus  if they were locked  in a                                                                    
vehicle. Mr. Hostina replied in the affirmative.                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy asked for  verification that the university                                                                    
did not  currently differentiate  between "long  guns, short                                                                    
guns, etcetera." Mr. Hostina agreed.                                                                                            
Senator Dunleavy wondered if the  university had the ability                                                                    
to deny an  individual the right to have a  gun on campus in                                                                    
their  car if  the  individual was  seen  to potentially  be                                                                    
problematic (e.g. suicidal, etcetera).  He wondered if there                                                                    
was currently a  written policy in place related  to guns in                                                                    
locked car trunks.                                                                                                              
Mr.  Hostina answered  in the  negative. He  explained state                                                                    
law  prohibited the  university from  regulating weapons  in                                                                    
cars in parking lots.                                                                                                           
10:07:39 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair Kelly  pointed out that  the secure  point language                                                                    
in  the  legislation  was the  same  as  existing  municipal                                                                    
regulations of firearms in statute.                                                                                             
MATT  COOPER,  ASSOCIATE   GENERAL  COUNCIL,  UNIVERSITY  OF                                                                    
ALASKA,  FAIRBANKS (via  teleconference),  expounded on  his                                                                    
colleague Mr.  Hostina's testimony. He relayed  the Board of                                                                    
Regents had requested two additional  amendments to the bill                                                                    
including  the ability  to regulate  concealed handguns  and                                                                    
knives in  facilities where K-12  students were  present and                                                                    
to  add a  requirement that  a person  would be  required to                                                                    
have a  state-issued permit  in order  to carry  a concealed                                                                    
handgun. The two  additions were not included in  the CS. He                                                                    
remarked  that  the  terminology  used  in  the  bill  moved                                                                    
between  concealed   handguns  and  knives,   firearms,  and                                                                    
weapons.  He detailed  the different  language created  some                                                                    
ambiguity  in places  about what  exactly  was being  talked                                                                    
about under certain circumstances.  He thought the committee                                                                    
may wish to consider how  the terms were used throughout the                                                                    
Co-Chair Kelly  commented that the committee  had heard that                                                                    
some of the  things [in the bill] were  unclear; however, he                                                                    
believed it was  clear the people of Alaska  were allowed to                                                                    
carry   and   the   university   disregarded   the   state's                                                                    
constitution  and statutes  by specifying  people could  not                                                                    
carry  on campus.  The  legislation tried  to  make as  many                                                                    
accommodations  to the  university as  possible so  it could                                                                    
meet the  spirit of the  law that allowed Alaskans  to carry                                                                    
weapons. He stressed  the committee had adopted  a number of                                                                    
amendments   to  address   the  university's   concerns.  He                                                                    
reasoned  the  university  was  saying  that  it  would  not                                                                    
support  the  legislation  because  the  committee  had  not                                                                    
adopted all  of the regent's recommendations.  He stated the                                                                    
university would not support the  legislation even if all of                                                                    
its recommendations were adopted.                                                                                               
Co-Chair Kelly  continued that the  university did  not like                                                                    
the bill  and it wanted  the ability to regulate  beyond the                                                                    
constitution and statutes as if  it was a separate political                                                                    
subdivision  from the  state. He  emphasized the  university                                                                    
was not  a separate  political subdivision. He  believed the                                                                    
committee had  successfully compromised, but  the university                                                                    
had  not. He  stated  the university  would  continue to  be                                                                    
unclear  on  the  legislation and  would  continue  to  have                                                                    
concerns.  He reiterated  the university  did  not want  the                                                                    
state to  be able to  regulate the issue. He  elaborated the                                                                    
university did not  want to be regulated and  that it fought                                                                    
the issue at every opportunity.                                                                                                 
10:11:21 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
10:17:50 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair MacKinnon noted the public  hearing on the bill had                                                                    
previously been closed.                                                                                                         
Co-Chair Kelly MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment 1.                                                                           
Co-Chair MacKinnon OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
Co-Chair  Kelly   explained  the  amendment  would   add  an                                                                    
effective date of August 1,  2016. He detailed the effective                                                                    
date was  consistent with  the committee's  discussion about                                                                    
giving the university  the time to prepare  for the upcoming                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, conceptual Amendment 1 was ADOPTED.                                                                          
Co-Chair Kelly MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment 2:                                                                           
Co-Chair MacKinnon OBJECTED for discussion.                                                                                     
Co-Chair Kelly  communicated the amendment would  insert the                                                                    
words "except  as provided  for in section  (e)" on  page 3,                                                                    
line 13.                                                                                                                        
Co-Chair MacKinnon  explained the  committee had  heard from                                                                    
the university's legal counsel that  if the words "except as                                                                    
provided for in section (e)"  were inserted on line 13 after                                                                    
the words  "may not," it  should clear up  the inconsistency                                                                    
between a  permanent and temporary  record status  and would                                                                    
allow  students  to  be  housed   away  from  students  with                                                                    
firearms if they so desired.                                                                                                    
10:19:36 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
10:22:43 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair   MacKinnon  explained   that  the   committee  had                                                                    
discussed  students who  may have  already  applied for  the                                                                    
fall   semester.  She   relayed  it   was  the   committee's                                                                    
expectation  that if  the  university  had already  received                                                                    
applications it  would go back  and provide  future students                                                                    
an opportunity  to check the box  on a form if  they planned                                                                    
to carry a handgun.                                                                                                             
Co-Chair  Kelly relayed  nothing  prohibited the  university                                                                    
from  managing at  that level;  if it  did, it  would become                                                                    
apparent as  the bill  moved forward and  he would  make the                                                                    
change. He believed it was a reasonable consideration.                                                                          
Co-Chair MacKinnon  WITHDREW her  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION,  conceptual Amendment 2 was  ADOPTED. She                                                                    
directed Legislative  Legal Services  to make  technical and                                                                    
conforming  changes   to  the  conceptual   amendments  when                                                                    
drafting the CS.                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  discussed the one fiscal  note from the                                                                    
University  of   Alaska.  He  read  a   Legislative  Finance                                                                    
Division footnote dated March 14, 2016:                                                                                         
     The  cost  of  regulating  the  carrying  of  concealed                                                                    
     handguns    and   knives    at   the    university   is                                                                    
     indeterminate. Although the  university has projected a                                                                    
     fiscal  note  of  $1.3  million   UGF  and  a  services                                                                    
     contract for  FY 17 and  $800,000 UGF as a  steady cost                                                                    
     in  the out  years, these  amounts cannot  be verified.                                                                    
     Similar efforts in other state universities project up                                                                     
     to three times the initial amount shown in the UA                                                                          
     fiscal note.                                                                                                               
Vice-Chair   Micciche   relayed    the   fiscal   note   was                                                                    
indeterminate  for FY  17 through  FY 22,  which essentially                                                                    
meant it was a zero fiscal note.                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon there was a  proposal to amend the fiscal                                                                    
note  to zero  for  FY  17 through  FY  22.  There being  NO                                                                    
OBJECTION, it  was so  ordered; the  fiscal note  was zeroed                                                                    
out by the Senate Finance Committee.                                                                                            
10:25:29 AM                                                                                                                   
Vice-Chair  Micciche  wondered  if there  was  a  legitimate                                                                    
management cost to the university,  the legislature would be                                                                    
willing  to cover  the  costs in  the  future. He  specified                                                                    
legitimate meant  something the legislature realized  was an                                                                    
appropriate expense related to SB 174.                                                                                          
Co-Chair  Kelly did  not have  objection. He  commented that                                                                    
some  universities  in  other  states  that  had  put  forth                                                                    
extremely high  fiscal notes, had not  ultimately spent that                                                                    
much  to  accommodate  similar  legislation.  He  noted  his                                                                    
comments were currently anecdotal.                                                                                              
Co-Chair MacKinnon  understood that the  Legislative Finance                                                                    
Division had  looked at fiscal  notes from other  states and                                                                    
concurred that  they typically tended to  be inflated coming                                                                    
from the universities.                                                                                                          
Co-Chair  Kelly  MOVED  to  report   CSSB  174(FIN)  out  of                                                                    
Committee   with   individual    recommendations   and   the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal note.                                                                                                       
10:27:22 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
10:27:28 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  asked  Co-Chair Kelly  to  restate  his                                                                    
Co-Chair Kelly MOVED to report  CSSB 174(FIN) as amended out                                                                    
of  Committee   with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal  note. There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
CSSB  174(FIN) was  REPORTED  out of  committee  with a  "do                                                                    
pass" recommendation  and with one  new zero fiscal  note by                                                                    
the Senate Finance Committee for the University.                                                                                
10:28:08 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
10:32:28 AM                                                                                                                   
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  summarized   action  taken  during  the                                                                    
current meeting.  She discussed the afternoon  schedule. She                                                                    
reviewed the schedule for the remainder of the week.                                                                            
Senator  Dunleavy  asked for  details  on  the schedule  for                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon complied.                                                                                                    
Senator Dunleavy  was interested in a  specific bill related                                                                    
to a  countermand amendment. He  thought it was  supposed to                                                                    
be heard during the Wednesday meeting.                                                                                          
Co-Chair  MacKinnon   answered  she  would  look   into  the                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 91 CS SS SB 91 (FIN) ver F.pdf SFIN 4/4/2016 9:00:00 AM
SB 91
SB 174 CS SB 174(FIN) ver I - Summary of Changes.pdf SFIN 4/4/2016 9:00:00 AM
SB 174
CS SB 174(FIN) ver I.pdf SFIN 4/4/2016 9:00:00 AM
SB 174
CS SB 145 (FIN) ver W.pdf SFIN 4/4/2016 9:00:00 AM
SB 145