Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205

04/10/2009 03:30 PM RESOURCES


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03:36:35 PM Start
03:37:08 PM Confirmation Hearing - Judge Karl Johnstone, Board of Fisheries
04:02:40 PM Overview: Fischer-tropsch Synthetic Fuels Pilot Program
04:53:33 PM SB177
04:56:14 PM SB108
05:12:39 PM HB134
06:02:14 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Confirmation Hearing:
Judge Karl Johnstone - Board of Fish
= SB 177 NO REPEAL OF SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING
Moved CSSB 177(RES) Out of Committee
+= SB 108 STAMPEDE STATE RECREATION AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 108(RES) Out of Committee
= HB 134 CRUISE SHIP WASTEWATER DISCHARGE PERMITS
Moved SCS CSHB 134(RES) Out of Committee
Overview: Alaska Fischer-Tropsch
+ Synthetic Fuels Pilot Program TELECONFERENCED
Mark K. Iden, Deputy Director,
Operations Defense Energy Support Center
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
     CSHB 134(RES)-CRUISE SHIP WASTEWATER DISCHARGE PERMITS                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:12:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR   MCGUIRE  announced   CSHB   134(RES)  to   be  up   for                                                              
consideration.  She said  they already had  public testimony,  but                                                              
she  would open  it up  briefly  to see  if  people had  something                                                              
different to say than they said before.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:13:33 PM                                                                                                                    
JEFF FARBER, Alaska  Long Line Fishing Association  (ALFA), Sitka,                                                              
had a  letter that  she asked  him to  summarize. He supported  HB
134. He is  a 10-year resident  of Sitka and a  20-year commercial                                                              
fisherman.  He values  pristine  clear waters  that Alaska's  fish                                                              
are  harvested from.  They have  worked  really hard  to get  that                                                              
message  out to  the  public and  don't want  that  message to  be                                                              
degraded  or  compromised.  They   are  committed  to  being  good                                                              
stewards  of Alaska's resources  and expect  that same  commitment                                                              
from other  users. He supported a  sunset on the mixing  zones for                                                              
cruise ship discharges.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:15:28 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER  GIBBONS,   Executive  Director,  Prince   William  Sound                                                              
Keepers,  and  serves on  the  Board  of  the Cordova  Chamber  of                                                              
Commerce.  She   sees  this  issue  from  both   an  environmental                                                              
perspective  and   tourist  perspective.   They  have   made  good                                                              
progress in allowing  industry some flexibility with  the timeline                                                              
and  that  is both  realistic  and  fair.  But  that needs  to  be                                                              
balanced with protecting  our Alaskan waters by  insuring there is                                                              
a deadline  that will sunset the  waivers allowed in  Section (e).                                                              
They know  that both from  the technology conference  earlier this                                                              
year  and  from  DEC's  March 2  report  that  the  technology  is                                                              
advancing,  that  the  deadline  has been  the  driving  incentive                                                              
behind progress  and that it is  possible to meet the  goal within                                                              
the next several years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:17:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROLYN ROSEBURY,  representing  herself, Cordova, urged  amending                                                              
section (e) to sunset  in 3-5 years, because this  deadline is the                                                              
only incentive for compliance.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ERIC LEON,  representing himself, said  he is a member  of Cordova                                                              
District  Fishermen  United,  agreed  with  previous  comments  in                                                              
support of sunsetting section (e).                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  SMITH, Board  Member,  Cordova District  Fishermen  United,                                                              
supported  HB  134  and  sunsetting  section  (e)  in  3-5  years.                                                              
Everything depends  on fishing for him, so the  cleanliness of our                                                              
waters is paramount.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  FALKNER,  representing  himself,  Homer,  supported  passing                                                              
CSHB  134(RES) without  the sunset  amendment.  He operates  three                                                              
hotel properties  on the Kenai Peninsula,  and has worked  hard to                                                              
develop ground-based  motor coach tours with the  cruise companies                                                              
there.  They are  very price-sensitive  and are  the first  things                                                              
visitors cancel  when the price  of their trip increases.  In 2009                                                              
he   had  600   more  room   cancelations  than   in  2008.   More                                                              
importantly, he said  the entire Clean Water Initiative  should be                                                              
under review  by this committee,  because the process  was "flawed                                                              
to the core."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:20:47 PM                                                                                                                    
He is  totally ignorant  of chemicals  and mixing  zones,  and his                                                              
research shows  that those  who voted for  this initiative  had no                                                              
idea what  they were  voting on. Secondly,  how can  an initiative                                                              
be  considered   valid  if  what  the  initiative   implements  is                                                              
unachievable?                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:21:36 PM                                                                                                                    
DON  HERNANDEZ,  representing  himself, Petersburg,  said  he  had                                                              
been a  commercial gillnet  fisherman in  Southeast Alaska  for 27                                                              
years and very  much opposed allowing mixing zones  in its waters.                                                              
He supported  the sunset section  (e) in 3-5 years  and monitoring                                                              
at the point of release.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He  has three  major concerns:  one is  that he  fishes in  waters                                                              
where cruise  ships are  transiting. So he  is concerned  with how                                                              
their  discharges  affect his  nets,  with  how they  pollute  our                                                              
waters and  they affect  public perception  in the marketplace  of                                                              
how pristine our waters are.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:22:58 PM                                                                                                                    
PAULA  TERREL,  Alaska  Trollers  Association, said  she  and  her                                                              
husband had been  commercial fisherman in Southeast  Alaska for 30                                                              
years.  She complimented  everyone on  the compromise  in HB  134,                                                              
but, she  said, section  (e) on  the mixing  zone waivers  needs a                                                              
sunset. She said  if the industry for some reason  can't implement                                                              
the  technology,  the  sunset  provision   could  be  extended  or                                                              
removed  later, but  for now  there needs  to be  a level  playing                                                              
field.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:24:45 PM                                                                                                                    
KARLA  HART,  representing  herself,  Juneau, asked  to  give  the                                                              
industry  no  more than  seven  years  from  the date  the  Alaska                                                              
voters  passed the  cruise  ship  initiative for  compliance.  The                                                              
cruise  industry excels  at marketing  and  public relations,  and                                                              
the will  use the  economic crisis  and its  impact on  tourism to                                                              
give them  added leverage in asking  to roll back elements  of the                                                              
voter-approved initiative.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
She has worked  around Alaska tourism since the  1960s; she served                                                              
on  the  Alaska  Tourism  Marketing   Council  in  the  1990s  and                                                              
regularly  follows the  cruise industry  and Alaska  tourism  as a                                                              
matter  of interest.  Although  there  appear to  be  quite a  few                                                              
cruise  industry players  in Alaska,  it boils  down to three;  of                                                              
those,  Carnival Corporation  has  about two-thirds  of the  ships                                                              
operating  under  the  Princess,   Holland  America  and  Carnival                                                              
brands. Carnival  is a  publicly traded company;  and this  is one                                                              
company that has the resources to actually get this technology.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Carnival's 2008  annual report indicated  that globally  they have                                                              
$33 billion in  assets, 88 ships, capacity of  170,000 passengers,                                                              
86,000 employees;  they transport  over 8 million  passengers with                                                              
revenues  of  $14.5  billion,  and  have  a  net  income  of  $2.3                                                              
billion. They  have over $9  billion of  vessels on order  as they                                                              
"continue to  grow their  global footprint" as  they say.   Alaska                                                              
voters  said they  don't want  that global  footprint rimmed  with                                                              
sewer sludge and  toxic waste. Cruise lines have  the resources to                                                              
address this but  they lack the will. Their 2008  report said they                                                              
are improving fuel  efficiencies, reducing their  carbon footprint                                                              
and helping their  bottom line. The problem is  that meeting clean                                                              
water standards does not improve the corporate bottom line.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
She  stated   that  Mick  Aaronson,  Carnival's,   largest  single                                                              
shareholder,  recently announced  pulling  a ship  from Alaska  in                                                              
2010  due  to  the  $50/head  tax  also  included  in  this  voter                                                              
initiative.  She believes this  is part  of their announced  cost-                                                              
cutting   measures  that   include   leveraging   all  ships   for                                                              
purchasing  and negotiating contracts  in Alaska.  It's a  game of                                                              
strategy and  strategic investment.  If he took  all of  his ships                                                              
and went  home, Alaska  tourism  would survive.  There would  be a                                                              
crisis for  the businesses  that have  become dependent  on cruise                                                              
lines,  but there  would  also be  an opportunity  to  restructure                                                              
Alaska  tourism  from  current   monopolistic  foreign  controlled                                                              
tourism  to  a diverse  resilient  locally  owned  and  controlled                                                              
tourism economy.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:28:02 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  BINKLEY,  President,  Alaska Cruise  Association,  said  the                                                              
volumes the cruise  ships discharge is relatively  low compared to                                                              
municipal systems.  The ships  are not in  a line and  discharging                                                              
in  spurts  one  after  the  other.   They  discharge  continually                                                              
whether at dock  or under way; as they produce the  clean water it                                                              
is discharged from  the ship. Because it is extremely  clean it is                                                              
allowed  to discharge  continuously  with  a few  exceptions,  one                                                              
being Glacier Bay.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
An  EPA study  indicated  that an  average  ship discharges  about                                                              
143,000 gallons  per 24-hour period  -compare that  to communities                                                              
like Juneau  that discharges over  9 million gallons in  a 24-hour                                                              
period.  It  would  take  53  cruise  ships  parked  in  Gastineau                                                              
Channel to equal what Juneau puts into the channel in one day.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BINKLEY  said copper  is another  item of  concern and  cruise                                                              
ships  under  the  existing  regulations  produce  far  less  than                                                              
communities  in Southeast  or Southcentral  Alaska. The amount  of                                                              
copper in  parts per  billion is  much lower  in any given  gallon                                                              
that goes out and the gallons are far lower.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
It's  disconcerting  to him  to  hear  so  much concern  from  the                                                              
fishing  industry, because  it is  very important  to the  visitor                                                              
industry  and   cruise  ships   specifically  to  maintain   clean                                                              
pristine waters, not  only for Alaska, but for the  world. That is                                                              
the  livelihood of  the ships,  and  if they  don't maintain  that                                                              
they  are  out  of  business,  just  like  those  in  the  fishing                                                              
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He said they  take great pride  in bringing visitors to  Alaska to                                                              
promote  wild  clean   Alaska  seafood.  Many  cruise   lines  buy                                                              
millions of dollars  of seafood and promote it so  that people who                                                              
go  home have  a desire  to continue  to buy  Alaskan seafood.  He                                                              
said it's  simply not  true that  cruise ships  are polluting  the                                                              
waters of Alaska.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:31:51 PM                                                                                                                    
Further,  Mr. Binkley  said  that  sunsetting provision  (e)  will                                                              
have  the exact  opposite effect.  Industry  has already  invested                                                              
over  $200 million  complying with  the initiative  would have  no                                                              
further incentive to  invest if a set standard  is not attainable.                                                              
Instead they  investment in getting  around Alaska  regulations by                                                              
holding more  waste water,  altering itineraries  to discharge  in                                                              
waters beyond  Alaska and  simply ignoring  the permitting  system                                                              
that Alaska has  in place. He opposed the amendment  and supported                                                              
allowing the  compromise to go through  as it is, so  the industry                                                              
can  continue  to  work  with  the  regulators  to  improve  their                                                              
existing systems.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:33:20 PM                                                                                                                    
GERSHON  COHEN, Campaign  to  Safeguard America's  Waters  (CSAW),                                                              
said  he  is  one  of the  sponsors  of  the  cruise  ship  ballot                                                              
initiative, Haines,  and he studied the issue of  mixing zones for                                                              
nearly  20 years.  At the last  hearing  there was  a lot of  talk                                                              
about the  mechanics of mixing zones  - how much pollution  can be                                                              
absorbed, how big  a mixing zone should be, who  has mixing zones,                                                              
the impacts,  et cetera.  Unfortunately,  most of these  questions                                                              
cannot be  answered with any  certainty, because mixing  zones are                                                              
not a  matter of science  where you control  a set  of conditions,                                                              
change one thing and make observations.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mixing  zones  are  a  risk  analysis   with  a  laundry  list  of                                                              
variables. For each  ship and course setting you need  to know the                                                              
size of  the mixing  zone, the  rate of  the discharge,  the speed                                                              
and  design  of  the ship,  the  water  body  depth,  temperature,                                                              
salinity and  topography, the number  of ships discharging  in the                                                              
same   area,   the   chemical   relationships   between   multiple                                                              
pollutants,  detailed   profiles  of  local  biota   in  terms  of                                                              
tolerance  potential  for  avoidance  and  proximity  to  a  ship,                                                              
whether   someone  is   harvesting   and  consuming   contaminated                                                              
organisms, how the  food will be prepared, and on  and on. DEC has                                                              
never  to his  knowledge  answered most  of  these questions  when                                                              
approving a mixing  zone nor does it routinely  measure pollutants                                                              
at the boundaries of a mixing zone or the impacts within it.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The bottom  line is the benefits  of mixing zones are  received by                                                              
the  polluter; but  the risks  are borne  by the  public. He  said                                                              
it's not  true that this bill  is an acceptable compromise  to all                                                              
parties. The  point of  discharge phrase  was reinserted,  but the                                                              
original  concept  has  been  replaced  with  a  temporary  waiver                                                              
provision  and  no sunset  date.  In  practical terms,  without  a                                                              
deadline  there is  no  incentive for  the  rest of  the ships  to                                                              
improve performance.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Contrary to what  was said a few moments ago,  nearly one-third of                                                              
last  summer's sampling  events  demonstrated ships  can meet  the                                                              
so-called  impossible  standards.  DEC  has  documented  that  the                                                              
technologies exist  to meet the water quality  standards, although                                                              
some need to be reconfigured to fit on a ship.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  COHEN  concluded  that  he   thought  a  compromise  and  the                                                              
fundamental principal  of the bill  can be reached if  it contains                                                              
a reasonable  sunset of the  temporary waiver provision.  Then the                                                              
sponsors of the cruise initiative will support the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:36:43 PM                                                                                                                    
ROD  PFLEIGER,   Manager,  Membership  and   Community  Relations,                                                              
Alaska Cruise Association,  said the complications of  a sunset to                                                              
an ongoing  business for  planning purposes  and itineraries  will                                                              
continue  to  add  a negative  impact  on  the  family  businesses                                                              
throughout   the   state.   Forty-five    communities,   including                                                              
governmental   agencies,   the   Alaska  Municipal   League,   the                                                              
Southeast  Conference, and  approximately  30 other  organizations                                                              
represented  by communities  from chambers  and visitors  bureaus,                                                              
throughout  the  state have  agreed  on  CSHB 134(RES)  without  a                                                              
sunset clause for (e).                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:38:35 PM                                                                                                                    
TAMMY GRIFFIN,  Alaska Hotel  Lodging Association,  said she  is a                                                              
director of  operations for  a hotel  management company  that has                                                              
eight  hotels in  Alaska. She  is  a life-long  Alaskan and  cares                                                              
about keeping the  tourism industry healthy. She is  having a very                                                              
difficult  time   understand  why   they  are  not   allowing  the                                                              
regulatory agency,  DEC, to manage  such things. Why let  a ballot                                                              
initiative create  laws when DEC  manages from a  scientific point                                                              
of  view? It  is  not a  mere  threat that  ships  can be  leaving                                                              
Alaska because the  return on investment is not  making sense. She                                                              
supported CSHB 134(RES) without the sunsetting provision (e).                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TIM  JUNE,   representing  himself,   Haines,  AK,  said   he  was                                                              
originally on  the cruise ship  initiative committee and  has been                                                              
a member of two  Governor's Water Quality Task Forces,  has been a                                                              
commercial fisherman  for 25 years in Southeast Alaska,  and was a                                                              
2001  special  assistant  to  Governor   Knowles  for  Oceans  and                                                              
Watersheds.  He  encouraged the  committee  to respect  the  voter                                                              
initiative that  passed by 58  percent, but more  significantly it                                                              
passed  with one  side spending$8,000  while  the cruise  industry                                                              
spent $1.4  million. There  is tremendous  passion behind  passing                                                              
this initiative.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He  addressed  the  issue  of  copper,  specifically,  saying  the                                                              
aquatic life standard  for copper is 2.9 parts per  billion. It is                                                              
significant in  that a  2001 study showed  that cruise  ships were                                                              
putting  about 7100  parts  per billion  before  treatment at  the                                                              
high end, for  an average of 850  parts per billion. The  point is                                                              
that copper  "totally screws up"  a salmon's olfactory  senses and                                                              
their ability  to come back  to where they  were born and  to ward                                                              
of  predators.  The  presence  of   high  copper  levels  is  very                                                              
significant  and they  should  not  let it  be  discharged into  a                                                              
mixing zone.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUNE  reminded them that  these ships are mobile  dischargers,                                                              
they  are not  like  a  town or  city  where  they know  what  the                                                              
discharge point  is. They  discharge commonly  in waters  that are                                                              
frequented by  sensitive life  cycle of salmon  fry that  are even                                                              
more sensitive to copper.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He said  they can  use the  existing DEC  variance position  until                                                              
this technology  is available to  ships. It is available  to land-                                                              
based systems  now. They have  ways to get  rid of the  metals and                                                              
the ammonia,  but it  has to be  adapted to the  ship. It  is good                                                              
for the  DEC to work  with the industry  and the sunset  clause is                                                              
very important to do that.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
In  closing, he  reminded  the committee  that  this industry  has                                                              
been  very successful  in terms  of  major campaign  contributions                                                              
and has access to the legislature.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE responded that many people who have testified                                                                  
here on this subject also have offered campaign donations, and                                                                  
they appreciate his testimony.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:44:58 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE closed public testimony.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI moved to adopt Amendment 1 identified as                                                                  
26-LS0570\W.3.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                      26-LS0570\W.3                                                             
                                                            Bullard                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                          AMENDMENT 1                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     OFFERED IN THE SENATE              BY THE SENATE RESOURCES                                                                 
                                                      COMMITTEE                                                                 
     TO:  CSHB 134(RES), Draft Version "W"                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "if the"                                                                                                       
          Insert ". The"                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, lines 12 - 14:                                                                                                     
          Delete ", in consultation with its science                                                                            
     advisory panel on wastewater treatment, determines                                                                         
     that compliance with those limits or standards is the                                                                      
     most technologically effective and economically                                                                            
     feasible"                                                                                                                  
          Insert "shall establish and consult with a                                                                            
     science  advisory  panel  on   wastewater  treatment  to                                                                   
     evaluate   the   most  technologically   effective   and                                                                   
     economically feasible treatment options."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 18:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec. 3.  AS 46.03.462(b), as amended by  sec. 2 of                                                               
     this Act, is amended to read:                                                                                              
          (b)  The minimum standard terms and conditions                                                                        
     for  all   discharge  permits   authorized  under   this                                                                   
     section require that the owner or operator                                                                                 
               (1)  may not discharge untreated sewage,                                                                         
     treated  sewage, graywater,  or other  wastewaters in  a                                                                   
     manner that  violates any applicable effluent  limits or                                                                   
     standards under  state or federal law,  including Alaska                                                                   
     Water  Quality  Standards  governing  pollution  at  the                                                                   
     point  of discharge  [,  EXCEPT AS  PROVIDED  IN (e)  OF                                                                   
     THIS SECTION];                                                                                                             
               (2)  shall maintain records and provide the                                                                      
     reports required under AS 46.03.465(a);                                                                                    
               (3)  shall collect and test samples as                                                                           
     required under  AS 46.03.465(b) and (d) and  provide the                                                                   
     reports   with  respect   those   samples  required   by                                                                   
     AS 46.03.475(c);                                                                                                           
               (4)  shall report discharges in accordance                                                                       
     with AS 46.03.475(a);                                                                                                      
               (5)  shall allow the department access to                                                                        
     the  vessel   at  the  time  samples  are   taken  under                                                                   
     AS 46.03.465 for  purposes of taking the samples  or for                                                                   
     purposes  of verifying  the  integrity  of the  sampling                                                                   
     process; and                                                                                                               
               (6)  shall submit records, notices, and                                                                          
     reports   to   the   department   in   accordance   with                                                                   
     AS 46.03.475(b), (d), and (e)."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 2:                                                                                                            
          Delete "2014"                                                                                                         
          Insert "2015"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 17: It will be difficult because                                                                              
          Delete "2014"                                                                                                         
          Insert "2015"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 26:                                                                                                           
          Delete "AS 46.03.464 is"                                                                                              
          Insert "AS 46.03.462(e), 46.03.462(f), and                                                                            
     46.03.464 are"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 27:                                                                                                           
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
        "* Sec. 8.  Sections 3 and 7 of this  Act take effect                                                               
     January 1, 2015."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 28:                                                                                                           
         Delete "Sections 1 through 5 of this Act take"                                                                         
          Insert "Except as provided in sec. 8 of this Act,                                                                     
     this Act takes"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE objected.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI  said he  thought this  would be  a one-line                                                              
amendment, but  it's two-pages. This  is a major  policy decision;                                                              
and they need  to remember people voted overwhelmingly.  This is a                                                              
compromise  to accommodate  the industry  by adding  six years  to                                                              
comply, and they  have already had three. This  sunset clause will                                                              
give them nine years  to comply from the time voters  voted on it.                                                              
The initiative sponsors  support it, the sponsor  supports it, and                                                              
he  has  been  told  the  Governor   supported  it  at  her  press                                                              
conference today.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ALPHEUS   BULLARD,   Legislative  Counsel,   Legislative   Affairs                                                              
Agency, explained  the amendment substantially changes  the intent                                                              
language that  prefaces the W version  of this bill. Page  1, line                                                              
13,  of the  amendment  provides what  AS  46.03.462(b) will  look                                                              
like  once  January  1,  2015  rolls   around.  The  rest  of  the                                                              
amendment beginning  on page  2, line  14, is conforming  language                                                              
that  changes  some  of the  sections  dealing  with  the  Science                                                              
Advisory Committee,  making their last report in 2016.  On line 22                                                              
the  amendment repeals  AS 46.03.462(f)  and AS  46.03.464 all  in                                                              
2015. He offered to answer questions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  how  all  of those  are  repealed in  2015,                                                              
specifically language on page 2, lines 22-24.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BULLARD  directed him  to page  4, line 26,  of the  version W                                                              
where section  6 provides that AS  46.03.464 is repealed.  This is                                                              
the  section  dealing   with  the  Science  Advisory   Panel.  The                                                              
amendment  amends   AS  46.03.462(e)   and  (f);  those   are  the                                                              
exceptions. Another  subsection provides for how  the exception to                                                              
the  water  discharge  standards   at  point  of  discharge  work.                                                              
Section 7  provides that all of  this will take effect  as amended                                                              
in 2015.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:50:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE announced an at ease.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:50:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE called the meeting back to order at 5:50.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said as Mr.  Bullard was  reaching the end  of his                                                              
description,  he  had  trouble tracking  exactly  how  the  repeal                                                              
works,  and  specifically  referenced   page  4,  line  26,  [CSHB
134(RES) version W]  that says "AS 46.03.464 is  repealed," but it                                                              
gives no date.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BULLARD  explained  that the  next line of  the bill  provides                                                              
when that section takes effect.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said he got  it now. It's  the same  mechanism for                                                              
inserting the sunset.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BULLARD  answered yes.  That large block  at the  beginning of                                                              
the  amendment  on page  1,  line  13  through  page 2,  line  10,                                                              
provides  that  would  occur  at the  moment  those  sections  are                                                              
repealed,  which  brings  that  provision  back into  line  as  it                                                              
existed before the effective date of this act.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH thanked him.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:52:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   HUGGINS  admitted   that   he  didn't   vote  for   this                                                              
initiative;  it makes  him uncomfortable  when they  do things  to                                                              
the  other guy  - Juneau  has  one standard  and  we have  another                                                              
standard for  those who come to visit  us if they are  riding on a                                                              
cruise ship.  Everyone wants pristine  waters; and  it disappoints                                                              
him that  fishermen want  a different  standard for cruise  ships.                                                              
It's a double  standard and society  has said over and  over again                                                              
"equal  opportunity, equal  standards  for equal  people." But  he                                                              
would reluctantly  support the  amendment, because it's  important                                                              
to move the bill along.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:54:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE added  that their  job  as policy  makers is  to                                                              
balance  development, the  management  of  the state's  resources,                                                              
the economy,  the jobs  and all  of the things  out there.  She is                                                              
also troubled by  the prevailing theme in Alaska in  the last five                                                              
years  that is  anti-industry and  anti  those who  want to  spend                                                              
money and invest  in this state. "We do want  business," and these                                                              
cruise ships  bring between  almost one  million people  to visit.                                                              
Jobs  throughout  Alaska  are  100   percent  dependent  on  their                                                              
participation  in its  economy. The  state is  going to  see a  40                                                              
percent  decline   in  the  tourism  industry,   bankruptcies  and                                                              
businesses closing. Part  of it is due to the economy  and part is                                                              
due to  the direct impact  of the decisions  that the  cruise ship                                                              
industry has made  with respect to investment in  this state. This                                                              
is the place to argue about it.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
She  agreed with  Senator  Huggins that  she  values the  pristine                                                              
waters of our  state, but they need  to be very careful  when they                                                              
start  to  impose  standards  that  are  not  only  different  and                                                              
distinct,  but  technologically   impossible.  She  would  not  be                                                              
supporting the amendment,  but she understands the  sentiment with                                                              
which it is offered.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  asked if CO-CHAIR  WIELECHOWSKI if he  wanted to                                                              
look at the new version of the amendment.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI  responded that his staff put  this language                                                              
together  to   help  facilitate   the  dialogue.  It   places  the                                                              
amendment into the bill; it is not a different version.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:57:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGGINS   clarified  that  this  is  a   six-year  sunset                                                              
provision.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI wanted that verified by Mr. Bullard.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BULLARD  answered that  this amendment  moves the  sunset date                                                              
to January 1, 2015.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken. Senators  Huggins, French,  Stevens,                                                              
and  Wielechowski  voted  yea;   Senator  McGuire  voted  nay;  so                                                              
Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:59:03 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH  moved to  report CS for  HB 134(RES),  as amended,                                                              
from  committee  with  individual   recommendations  and  attached                                                              
fiscal  note(s).  There  being no  objection,  SCS  CSHB  134(RES)                                                              
moved from committee.                                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Synthetic Fuels Update - April 10 2009.ppt SRES 4/10/2009 3:30:00 PM